Rankles  +  317394 Fri, 19 Jan 07 09:27 PM Hey there. Ok I'll try to explain this as simply as I can... If we take the sentence 'The King rides the horse', King is the subject and the horse is the object.  Easy stuff.  Now in Old English, we would have different words for 'the' for each noun in this case, 'se' and 'oaet' which would show which of the two was subject and object, however this has now obviously fallen out of use.  However my point is that due to the noun's position and usage in the sentence the definite article changes. Using this as an example, I am trying to explain to a person I know why how she speaks is incorrect.  She continually uses terms such as 'I done it', 'I seen it' and such and I figure in a similar way that there is a subject and object with nouns, there would be one with verbs in the following sentences. I ate/I have eaten. I did/I have done. Now I am trying to explain to her why the latter forms of the verbs 'to eat' and 'to do' require the use of the verb 'to have' prior to them in order to be correct English, but I can't explain it withough some sort of term.  Is there a term for the verb 'to have' in this case in a similar vein of the subject/object example used for nouns? I don't know, something like 'secondary verb' which would explain why the verb 'ate' would change to 'eaten' after the addition of the verb 'have' beforehand. I'm assuming it's a kind of tense in which I am unfamiliar with the name. Thanks! Rankles Joined on Fri, Jan 19 2007 New Member 11 Articles, Verbs, Tenses, Nouns, Definite Articles

	Kooyeen  +  317428 Fri, 19 Jan 07 11:22 PM Hi, if I'm not mistaken, "seen" and "done" are past participles, "have seen" and "have done" are verbs in the present perfect tense, and in those verbs "have" is an auxiliary verb. Also, "saw" and "ate" are verbs in the simple past tense. When you learn a new verb, you need three forms of that verb, infinitive, past tense, and past participle: eat (bare infinitive)  ------------ ate (past tense) ------------ eaten (past participle) see (bare infinitive) ------------ saw (past tense) ----------- seen (past participle) ... and so on. Past participles are used with auxiliary verbs (but sometimes they can also be used as adjectives): I have eaten that stuff --------> (present perfect tense) auxiliary "to have" + past participle That stuff was eaten ----------> (passive form) auxiliary "to be" + past participle That stuff has been eaten ---> (passive form) auxiliary "to be" + past participle (NB: the auxiliary verb is "to be" in passive forms. In this example, it's in the present perfect tense, has been, which needs "to have" as auxiliary verb. That's why in the end we get has + been + eaten, one auxiliary verb and two past participles) I don't know if that can help you at all Kooyeen Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005 Italy Senior Member 4,969 Parental Advisory / Explicit Posts Verbs, Tenses, Auxiliaries, Simple Past, Present Perfect, Past Tenses

	CalifJim  +  317431 Fri, 19 Jan 07 11:27 PM has/have/had followed by a past participle would be called auxiliary verbs.  To make it even simpler, some people call them helper or helping verbs. CJ CalifJim Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004 California Veteran Member 22,389 "There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche Verbs, Tenses, Auxiliaries, Helping Verbs

	Inchoateknowledge  +  317542 Sat, 20 Jan 07 09:24 AM  CalifJim wrote: has/have/had followed by a past participle would be called auxiliary verbs.  To make it even simpler, some people call them helper or helping verbs. CJ Noooooo way. It is a finite verb phrase whose first verb is an auxiliary. EG: I have been ill. (H)ave  is an auxiliary here, but not have been. Inchoateknowledge Joined on Wed, May 3 2006 Senior Member 2,549 Beep! Beep! :) Verbs, Tenses, Auxiliaries, Helping Verbs

	milky  +  317558 Sat, 20 Jan 07 10:57 AM <Noooooo way. It is a finite verb phrase whose first verb is an auxiliary.> I think the poster meant to distinguish between "have"(full verb) and "have" (auxiliary). So, it's true that when has/have/had are followed by a p.p., they are being used as auxiliaries. milky Joined on Thu, Jan 15 2004 Senior Member 3,149 Hume said that if we had perfect or complete descriptive knowledge of reality, we could not, by reasoning, derive a single valid "ought". Verbs, Tenses, Auxiliaries

	CalifJim  +  317902 Sun, 21 Jan 07 08:00 AM Noooooo way. has/have/had followed by a past participle would be called auxiliary verbs. I believe I see the point of confusion.  The last word (verbs) refers only to has, have, and had, not also to the past participle which follows them! CJ CalifJim Verbs, Tenses, Auxiliaries