Him doing and His doing

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pructus

#40357 Mon, 02 Aug 04 04:09 AM

Would appreciate if some one should help me with my question….

I’d like to know among the two corresponding sentences, which is correct and which is not.

Or, both are correct.

I am getting impatient with “your” keeping secrets from me.

I am getting impatient with “you” keeping secrets from me.

I insisted on “his” going.

I insisted on “him” going.

She suggested “them” forming a study group.

She suggested “their” forming a study group.

I like his coming to my house.

I like him coming to my house.

I saw him smiling.

I saw his smiling.

pructus

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

Full Member (293)

CalifJim

#40363 Mon, 02 Aug 04 05:46 AM

The choice between the possessive and the direct object forms is difficult in the context you present. It appears to be dependent on the preceding verb or adjective. Sometimes native speakers use a form different from the one recommended in grammar books. In most cases the possessive is regarded as better, but the object form is widely used anyway.

Here are my preferences as a native speaker of American English.

I am getting impatient with “your” keeping secrets from me. OK
I am getting impatient with “you” keeping secrets from me. Not as good.

I insisted on “his” going. OK
I insisted on “him” going. Not as good.
I insisted that he go. Better.

She suggested “them” forming a study group. NO
She suggested “their” forming a study group. OK?
She suggested that they form a study group. Better.

I like his coming to my house. NO
I like him coming to my house. OK.
I like that he comes to my house. OK.

I saw him smiling. OK
I saw his smiling. NO.

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (16,971)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

American English, Direct objects, Grammar, Possessives, Verbs

pructus

#40494 Mon, 02 Aug 04 11:53 PM

I wanted but could not expect reply.

Thanks very much, CalifJim.

pructus

pructus

Teo

#484728 Tue, 04 Mar 08 01:04 AM

How about the acceptability of the following sentences?

1. Mother hates us playing indoors.

2. Mother hates our playing indoors.

3. It is no use of you trying to cheat me.

4. It is no use of your trying to cheat me.

5. There is little chance of him being rejected.

6. There is little chance of his being rejected.

Teo

Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2004

Taiwan

Contributing Member (1,614)

Thank you very much for your reply.

CalifJim

#484734 Tue, 04 Mar 08 02:00 AM

Teo
How about the acceptability of the following sentences?

1. Mother hates us playing indoors.

2. Mother hates our playing indoors.

3. It is no use of you trying to cheat me.

4. It is no use of your trying to cheat me.

5. There is little chance of him being rejected.

6. There is little chance of his being rejected.

1. OK 2. No. 3,4 It's no use trying to cheat me. 5. OK. 6. OK - more formal than 5.

To my ear, verbs of loving (liking) and hating are best formulated as loves (likes, hates) it when.

Mother hates it when we play indoors.

CalifJim

Verbs

Avangi

#484735 Tue, 04 Mar 08 02:04 AM

Hi Jim,

Re the possessive with the present participle, I agree that "I saw his smiling," sounds a little strange, but "I like his coming," doesn't bother me. Can you say anything to help categorize these models, helping explain why you reject them and accept "I insisted on his going"?

Thanks, - A.

Edit. Sorry, I hadn't seen your reply to Teo.

Avangi

Joined on Mon, Nov 19 2007

Senior Member (3,289)

". . . le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile." - Henri de Regnier

Possessives

Cool Breeze

#484749 Tue, 04 Mar 08 10:12 AM

CalifJim
I like his coming to my house. NO
I like him coming to my house. OK.
I like that he comes to my house. OK.

I saw him smiling. OK
I saw his smiling. NO.

Hi Jim

In Helsinki English I like his coming to my house is perfectly acceptable whereas I like that he comes to my house is wrong. I like it that he comes to my house would be correct.

I saw his smiling should be incorrect in all varieties of English as smiling isn't a gerund and thus can't have a subject. It is a present participle, which is one of the two alternatives after verbs of perception in the active voice.

More about the subject of the gerund here

Cool Breeze

Joined on Fri, Apr 7 2006

Helsinki, Finland

Senior Member (2,856)

The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.- Mark Twain

Gerunds, Verbs

Avangi

#484944 Tue, 04 Mar 08 05:46 PM

Cool Breeze
More about the subject of the gerund here

Hi CB,

Where?

To show you how dumb I am, I thought all the "-ing" words in this thread were both gerunds and present participles.

Best wishes, - A.

Avangi

Gerunds

Yankee

#484959 Tue, 04 Mar 08 06:09 PM

Avangi
Cool Breeze
More about the subject of the gerund here
Hi CB,
Where?
To show you how dumb I am, I thought all the "-ing" words in this thread were both gerunds and present participles.
Best wishes, - A.