guzhao67  +  605721 Fri, 05 Dec 08 02:34 PM Hi: could you explain why we in general don't say things like "Hitler loses the Second World War"? even if we consider this event as having lasting and actual significance. however, we usually say things like "COLUMBUS discovers America in 1492". Is there any tacit rules accounting for that? Thank you guzhao67 Joined on Mon, Oct 20 2008 New Member 41

	Clive  +  605745 Fri, 05 Dec 08 02:58 PM Hi, could you explain why we in general don't say things like "Hitler loses the Second World War"? even if we consider this event as having lasting and actual significance. however, we usually say things like "COLUMBUS discovers America in 1492". <<< I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone say that.   Is there any tacit rules accounting for that? Generally speaking, we can choose to tell a story using Simpe Present. This can also be done in reference to history, in the sense that it is a story. eg The Second World War starts.  Hitler has great success initially. The Allies rally. Hitler loses. To do this, you need to make it clear that you are going to tell a story. eg You might start by saying 'Let's review the major events of World War II'. In other words, if you walk into the room and say "In 1492, Columbus discovered America', I might say "Yes, I know". But if you walk into the room and say "In 1492, Columbus discovers America', I might say "What are you talking about?', because it souds more like you have decided to tell me a story. Best wishes, Clive Clive Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004 Canada Veteran Member 29,650 El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo

	Yankee  +  605764 Fri, 05 Dec 08 03:17 PM I agree with Clive. One place in which it is not unusual to see the historic present used is on a timeline which indicates a series of dates and the events that took place on those dates.  A timeline about the past lists a (chronological) series of factual events -- NOT just one single event.  Each event is usually stated in an extremely basic fashion, and with a specific date.  When you put such a series of past events together, you do create a story of sorts.  However, it would be more a simple list than a narrative. If you walked into a room and said "In 1492, Columbus discovers America", I would then expect to hear the rest of your list of events.  If you didn't continue with a list/timeline, then I would just assume you had made a grammatical error. Yankee Joined on Sat, Apr 15 2006 Connecticut, USA Veteran Member 6,502 Amy "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." - Mark Twain Dates