Paul    917629 Sat, 26 Sep 09 01:12 PM The Indian Minister of State for External Affairs, Shashi Tharoor (author of =91The Great Indian Novel=92) was in the eye of a storm for answering a question on twitter which went something like this: =93Now that the Govt. of India is enforcing strict austerity measures, when you fly to your home state the next time, will you be flying cattle class?=94 The poser of the query was referring to an appeal that all ministers should fly economy class. Tharoor=92s reply: =93Absolutely. Expressing solidarity with the holy cows, I too shall fly cattle class.=94 The powers that be in his party interpreted the usage =91holy cows=92 as a veiled reference to Sonia Gandhi and her son. Tharoor insisted that =91holy cows=92 were merely ideas which were sacrosanct and could never be a reference to actual individuals. What does the group feel could be the possible connotations of this phrase? Paul Business, Countries, Usages, References, Career

	Clive  +  917642 Sat, 26 Sep 09 01:21 PM Hi, I think one needs to live in India to understand these political subtleties.   When I read it, it just seemed to be a literal reference to the real cows that are considered holy in India.   Best wishes, Clive  Clive Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004 Canada Veteran Member 29,672 El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo Business, Countries, References, Career

	Molly Mockford    917700 Sat, 26 Sep 09 02:15 PM At 05:12:32 on Sat, 26 Sep 2009, Paul (Email Removed) wrote in (Email Removed): "What does the group feel could be the possible connotations of this phrase?" My immediate response to that phrase being used by an Indian is that he was referring, metaphorically if not literally, to the cows which are sacred to Hindus. I always believed (without researching it) that those cows were the original of the phrase now used as you cite, to refer to ideas or institutions which are deemed sacrosanct. In fact, on reading your post, I vaguely wondered whether the term "cattle class" would be deemed offensive, not to the humans who were comprised in the term, but to the sacred cows. In UK English, the word "cow" used as a pejorative is applied to females (and occasionally to camp male homosexuals, usually by other camp male homosexuals); I know less than nothing about Rahul Gandhi, but I think it extremely unlikely that he would be referred to as a cow in UK usage. Molly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) Molly Mockford Metaphors, Countries, Usages, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Languages

	John Hall    917915 Sat, 26 Sep 09 05:57 PM "The Indian Minister of State for External Affairs, Shashi Tharoor (author of ‘The Great Indian Novel’) was in the eye ... never be a reference to actual individuals. What does the group feel could be the possible connotations of this phrase?" In British English I think holy cows would be "ideas which were sacrosanct" rather than referring to people. But it might be different in India. John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?" "Well, actually, they're American." "So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?" Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island" John Hall British English, Business, United States, Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, American, References, Career, Languages

	Molly Mockford    918654 Sun, 27 Sep 09 07:49 AM At 22:57:16 on Sat, 26 Sep 2009, Paul (Email Removed) wrote in (Email Removed): "But it might be different" "in India." "Could it be? The English used in India is British English or International English (if the latter is different from ... criticised as 'sacred cow' or 'holy cow'? (These doubts have nothing to do with Tharoor, merely questions of academic curiocity)." But we're not looking at the English word itself, so much as the cultural overlay. It is that which gives ambiguity to some words and phrases which might not appear ambiguous in another cultural context. The cultural issues connected with "cows", for instance, must surely differ amongst Hindus than amongst non-Hindus, and amongst Indians generally than amongst non-Indian English speakers? Molly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) Molly Mockford British English, Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Context, Languages

	Molly Mockford    919276 Sun, 27 Sep 09 05:45 PM At 09:01:21 on Sun, 27 Sep 2009, Paul (Email Removed) wrote in (Email Removed): "'Cows', yes. 'Holy cow/s', no. The idiom doesn't exist in any indian language. What Hindu religion refers to is 'Go Maata' which is the same as saying, 'cow, who should be venerated as the mother.'" Ah, thanks for that, Paul - useful and informative! Molly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) Molly Mockford Idioms, Languages