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Riverclarin
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381679
Tue, 19 Jun 07 08:57 PM
 Nona The Brit wrote: | | So Riverclavin - you wouldn't mind homosexuality without intercourse? and you think that homosexual couples shouldn't do anything involving any thing other than straightforward intercourse? |
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"Wouldn't mind?" I don't fully understand what you mean. I love my friends, regardless of their sex. However, the only ones I would have sex with are female friends. This doesn't mean that I love my male friends any less. And, no, I don't think "that homosexual couples shouldn't do anything involving any thing other than straightforward intercourse" because in my opinion, homosexual intercourse is impossible. Two men may find each other sexually attractive but who decided that shoving a penis into an anus was an expression of love? To me it's nothing but self-love and self-gratification.
Joined on
Tue, Jun 19 2007
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Forbes
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381709
Tue, 19 Jun 07 10:43 PM
I am not sure that gay sex is more about self-gratification than straight sex and lots of straight people (so I am told) engage in anal sex.
And what about other forms of self-gratification?
No one has seen fit to answer my question about whether a man and woman should get married if one of them is infertile. If such a couple have sex is that self-grratification?
And as for being unnatural, I ask those who think that gay sex is unnatural to explain what is natural about any of the following:
Shaving
Cutting or dyeing your hair
Wearing glasses
Artificial light
Sitting at a computer
Celibacy
Joined on
Thu, Jun 16 2005
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Ahmedali111
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Tue, 19 Jun 07 10:52 PM
The idea which implies "what two or more adults do to each other is correct and legitimate as long as the agree to "" is a direct justification for prostitution and granting help to those who plan to commit suicide. Most of the perversions can be traced back to the early childhood, when a child becomes a victim of a discipline or experience that lose him /her shyness. When one feels embarrassed about something like sex, it is a noble feeling. A child should be taught to be decent, because the more the things one feels shy about the more respectful he is.
Joined on
Wed, Jul 26 2006
Iraq
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Forbes
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381729
Tue, 19 Jun 07 11:28 PM
Making children feel shy about their bodies and inculcating feelings of shame about sex is one of the wickedest things that well-meaning people do.
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Grammar Geek
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381736
Tue, 19 Jun 07 11:49 PM
I think we need to respect the fact that Ahmedali comes from a very different culture. My own thoughts and feelings are not at all similar to his, but I'm from a very different society.
It could be argued to that to encourage a high degree of comfort with sexuality and sexual expression in someone who will go on to live in a culture that hides sex is also a terrible thing to do to that person, if he or she will then have to live a lifestyle or live in a culture incompatible with how she has been raised.
Anyway, to say that only fertile men and women of childbearing age have the right to enjoy sexual expression seems crazy to me. Consent - true consent enabled by intelligence and maturity - is really the only factor that matters to me.
Joined on
Tue, Jan 10 2006
Veteran Member
19,652
Barbara, who answers in American English. My housekeeping skills attest to the truth of the second law of thermodynamics: Left to themselves, things get more and more random!
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Forbes
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381755
Wed, 20 Jun 07 12:50 AM
I am all in favour of cultural diversity, but not when it is used as an excuse for oppression. Human rights are human rights and are universal. I celebrate difference - how can I do otherwise as a gay man - but I do not like to dwell on it.
I appreciate that everyone has to live in a particular society, but there is a world of difference between encouraging behaviour that will be seen as anti-social and resisting instilling views and habits which, whilst they may allow you to live without the condemnation of that society, make you miserable. The consquences of forcing gay men and women to turn away from their natural feelings can be disastrous not only for the individual gay man or woman who is compelled to live a lie, but also for any partner of the opposite sex.
If they do nothing which invites condemnation, I respect all indivduals equally, by do not ask me to repsect their views which, if followed, increase the unhappiness in the world.
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Morgan Le Fey
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381773
Wed, 20 Jun 07 02:00 AM
| Grammar Geek wrote: | |
I think we need to respect the fact that Ahmedali comes from a very different culture. My own thoughts and feelings are not at all similar to his, but I'm from a very different society.
It could be argued to that to encourage a high degree of comfort with sexuality and sexual expression in someone who will go on to live in a culture that hides sex is also a terrible thing to do to that person, if he or she will then have to live a lifestyle or live in a culture incompatible with how she has been raised.
Anyway, to say that only fertile men and women of childbearing age have the right to enjoy sexual expression seems crazy to me. Consent - true consent enabled by intelligence and maturity - is really the only factor that matters to me.
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Yes, Nona.
But the thing is that Ahmedali is condemning everyone. If his society and his religion force it to think that way, I can't do anything to change his way of thinking.
But I refuse to respect his point of view. He is condemning and demeaning my cousins, my best friend (also gay), my *** friends. I will never admit that they are some kind of perverts just because the religion of someone from a different culture says so.
If he had only stated that Islam condemns homosexuality I would have said nothing, but what he said is that he himself condemns homosexuality no matter IF and no matter WHAT.
I agree with Forbes here. Go figure.
Isabella
Joined on
Wed, Jun 13 2007
Junior Member
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the more I know about men, the more I like my dog
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Grammar Geek
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381789
Wed, 20 Jun 07 03:04 AM
I don't require that people agree with me. We don't have the power to drag others, kicking and screaming, to our way of thinking. I don't recall that he said anything that requires you or me to call them perverts, but there is no way we can convince him to embrace our views. Sometimes you have to simply agree to disagree. Perhaps you failed to note that I said I do not share his thoughts or feelings. I have made decisions about which church to join because of this issue - I agreed to disagree, and went in search of a new congregation. I can't make them change their minds.
By the way, I'm not Nona.
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Grammar Geek
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381791
Wed, 20 Jun 07 03:10 AM
| Forbes wrote: | |
Human rights are human rights and are universal.
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How I wish that were so! We couldn't even get civil unions passed in Maine, one of the more liberal states out there. I think we have some rows to hoe yet before these rights are universal!
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