JKBelieve  +  66346 Sat, 08 Jan 05 02:12 PM Hope I'm not annoying you guys.....well here goes..... 'How long can I hold onto this?' and 'How long can I hold onto this for?' Which one sounds more idiomatic? JKBelieve Joined on Thu, Nov 25 2004 Full Member 278 Reality is what we believe it is - JK

	Mister Micawber  +  66355 Sat, 08 Jan 05 02:44 PM Both sound equally likely to me, spoken. Written formally, of course: 'For how long can I hold onto this?' PS: Please give your threads more descriptive subject titles, JK-- it makes it difficult for mods and others to select. Mister Micawber Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004 Yokohama Veteran Member 30,788 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'

	nona the brit  +  66356 Sat, 08 Jan 05 02:46 PM Hi. Firstly I think you are misunderstanding the word 'idiom'. This is a 'set-phrase' and there are not idioms for everything. Things do not sound 'idiomatic'. They are either idioms or not. You are perhaps looking for what sounds most natural, most informal, most like native speech, most colloquial etc. Both of your sentences sound ok and might be used in different circumstances. Man dangling off cliff edge desperately clinging to bush thinks to himself 'How long can I hold on to (note two words) this? Woman thrilled at being passed a cheque for £100,000,000 just for a publicity photograph (not hers to keep) jokingly asks 'How long can I hold on to this for?' I think that in general you would use the first version though, the second sounds a little clumsy. nona the brit Joined on Wed, Sep 22 2004 England Veteran Member 11,713 The name says it all. Idioms

	Mister Micawber  +  66357 Sat, 08 Jan 05 02:52 PM I think we need to agree on a definition of 'idiomatic'. To me, it means 'comforming to natural language formation'-- the way native speakers form the utterance, as opposed to unnatural structures sometimes assembled by ESL/EFL students. For example: 'It's good to see you again' is idiomatic English. 'It's good that I see you again' is not. I'm not sure who I'm speaking to, though. Mister Micawber