I believe they should

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New2grammar

#514072 Thu, 15 May 08 04:39 PM

1. I believe they/he/she will
2. I believe they/he/she can
3. I believe they/he/she should

Of the three contructions, I have trouble understanding the last one.
To me, there's some contradiction between believe and should. Should describes your opinion toward something and expresses your belief- more precisely your thought.
To me, having both just sounds weird. Can someone convince me otherwise?
Thanks!

New2grammar

Joined on Tue, Nov 21 2006

Forum Guru (5,630)

Avangi

#514075 Thu, 15 May 08 04:42 PM

How about, "In my opinion she is obligated / obliged to" I believe she should pay for the damage.

Avangi

Joined on Mon, Nov 19 2007

Advanced Member (2,207)

". . . le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile." - Henri de Regnier

New2grammar

#514081 Thu, 15 May 08 04:58 PM

Your reply helped me see it from a different perspective. I think I understand it better now.Thanks Avangi.

New2grammar

CalifJim

#514082 Thu, 15 May 08 04:59 PM

New2grammar
To me, having both just sounds weird. Can someone convince me otherwise?

Think of the difference in meaning if you leave out 'should':

I believe that she is leaving. (It seems to me that she is about to leave. I see her making preparations to leave. I conclude that she is leaving.)

I believe that she left. (It seems to me that she went out the door. I look around, and I don't see her anymore. She has gone, as far as I can tell.)

I believe she should leave. (There was an emergency call. Someone in her family is hurt. The best thing for her to do now, in my opinion, is for her to leave -- to go to them and help and comfort them. It seems to me advisable for her to leave. -- Alternately: She is drunk. She is embarrassing herself and others. She needs to go home and sleep it off. It seems to me advisable that she leave.)

I believe is the it-seems-to-me element; should is the it-is-advisable element. The it-is-advisable element is missing from the first two sentences.

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Forum Guru (15,629)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Grammar

Avangi

#514086 Thu, 15 May 08 05:07 PM

Hi,

I'd say after reading CJ's post that my example is too narrow, seeming limited to a moral obligation. His use of "advisable" is more appropriate, and covers more of the uses of should than mine does.

- A.

Avangi

New2grammar

#514089 Thu, 15 May 08 05:11 PM

I believe is the it-seems-to-me element; should is the it-is-advisable element. The it-is-advisable element is missing from the first two sentences.

This totally answers the question. Thanks, CJ. Actually Avangi's reply led me in this direction and I felt the difference and your reply states explicitly states it. Great!

New2grammar

CalifJim

#514092 Thu, 15 May 08 05:15 PM

I believe you should get a gold star for learning something new!

CalifJim

New2grammar

#514099 Thu, 15 May 08 05:32 PM

I don't quite understand your comment (This time I understand the believe...should part but not the rest :) )
I believe it's for me and it sounds like a compliment. Either way, I'll take it as a compliment Stick out tongue

Somehow, gold star throws me off. In my culture, stars are always good things.

New2grammar

Avangi

#514107 Thu, 15 May 08 05:54 PM

In my culture, when we say a person sees stars, it often means someone just hit him in the head, hard enough to cause him to nearly lose consciousness. Do you have that also?

Small, bright, colored, sticky paper stars are often applied to the schoolwork papers of children to reward them for excellence. The gold ones are the best.

- A.

Avangi

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