pieanne  +  98630 Thu, 12 May 05 04:33 PM To Just The Trout, Welcome to the Forums... To me, "I've eaten lunch", or "I've just had lunch", implies that you don't feel like eating anymore, that you're no longer hungry, along with the fact that you ate your lunch a short -logically- time before. pieanne Joined on Thu, Jan 20 2005 South of France ...But I'm Belgian! Veteran Member 7,517 I'm glad to help, but I'm not a native! And please excuse my typos...

	Roro  +  98640 Thu, 12 May 05 05:31 PM Hello! Please allow me to put a word in. I've been thinking: there is one sure thing about the difference between Simple Past and Present Perfect. (1) John ate lunch. ? John's eating event is located in the past world and it is possible that John does not exist in the present world. (2) John has eaten lunch. ? John's eating event has some current relevance. Whether or not this sentence means John's satiation or experience or something else, John should exist in the present world. There is little of practical use in such an speculation, though... but I think it is a fairly positive difference. In addition, it does not contradict neither CalifJim's theory nor JTT's theory. (f) (f) (f) Roro Joined on Mon, Apr 11 2005 Regular Member 581 Difference Between, Present Perfect, Simple Past

	paco2004  +  98712 Thu, 12 May 05 08:30 PM Hello Guys Let me show you two sentences to make my talk easy to understand. [1] Have you eaten lunch? [2] Have you eaten ostrich? These two sentences are identical in the verb used and the structure. Nevertheless, you take #1 as 'Recent Past' and #2 as 'Past Experience'. The teacher was asked by his students why they should be so.I think CJ's explanation is the best answer to this question. Maybe this kind of question sounds stupid to you native speakers, as you naturally acquired these collocations before you got accustomed to think things logically. But please think that ESL students have to learn English at an age of 12 or more. At those ages they are simultaneously learning such thing like solution of quadric equations or Euclid geometry in math class. So some of students inevitably seek logical reasons about everything they are learning. It would be not difficult for teachers to say "Don't ask the reasons in learning English", but this way of teaching will force some students to become an English-phobia as I was in my school days. paco paco2004 Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004 Senior Member 4,095 In Japan today even dogs are learning how to bow-wow in English. Verbs, Learning English, Learn English, Phobias

	pieanne  +  98714 Thu, 12 May 05 08:32 PM Good examples, Paco! pieanne

	paco2004  +  98715 Thu, 12 May 05 08:33 PM Hello Roro I agree with you. The present perfect tense belongs to present tense. It means: "The subject holds now the result of a thing that happened or they did at an indefinite past time." paco paco2004 Tenses, Present Tenses, Present Perfect

	temico  +  98733 Thu, 12 May 05 10:29 PM To Abbie, You are probably right because I don't know much about "present perfect progressive" tense. However, I would like to let you know that when translated into foreign(not related to Latin) languages, "Did you see..." and "Have you seen...." are EXACTLY the same. I still don't see the grammatical difference between, "Have you seen my pencil this morning" and, "Have you seen my pencil yesterday". To my knowledge, both "this morning" and "yesterday" refer to time in the PAST. One minute/second ago is still considered "time in the past". e.g. Q. "Have you seen TOM pass by now?" Anybody can TRUTHFULLY answer, "No, I have not." even if s/he has seen Tom pass by ONE MINUTE/SECOND ago!! temico Joined on Thu, Apr 21 2005 Full Member 274 Tenses, Difference Between, Present Perfect, Perfect Progressive

	paco2004  +  98742 Thu, 12 May 05 11:05 PM Hello Temico English present perfect constructs are incompatible with adverbs that define a past time, such as 'yesterday', 'on Monday', or 'last week'. I learned "Have you seen my pencil this morning?" is also not correct, though Abbie admitted it to be acceptable. Even "Have you seen him a pico second ago?" is incorrect. It is because a present perfect sentence is basically a statement about the present time, as you see the finite verb used is 'have' or 'has'. paco paco2004 Verbs, Adverbs, Present Perfect

	MrPedantic  +  98744 Thu, 12 May 05 11:12 PM That's interesting. I wouldn't find these ungrammatical: 1. Have you seen Bill this morning? 2. Have you seen Bill today? 3. Bill has already had two biscuits this morning. However, in all these cases, the speaker must be speaking from the time zone in question, i.e. this morning – today – this morning. So in that sense, they are still 'present'. MrP MrPedantic Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004 Veteran Member 12,592 ...opella forensis / adducit febris...

	paco2004  +  98746 Thu, 12 May 05 11:22 PM Hello Mr P So the validity sounds to depend on whether the event time and the speaking time (now) belong to the same time defined by the adverb. "Have you seen Queen Mary this millenium?". paco paco2004 Verbs, Adverbs