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Roro

#99166 Sat, 14 May 05 08:32 AM

Hello, paco! How are you?

Yeah.... there's a very big difference in frequency in use . And your explanation sounds very reasonable to me! Maybe I took JTT's comment only from my very restricted view.

Sorry, paco, .... we are digressing from your original subject all the time (h)

Roro

Joined on Mon, Apr 11 2005

Regular Member (581)

senthilvelann

#99171 Sat, 14 May 05 09:23 AM

Sir,

I would like to reproduce the rules given for "PRESENT PERFECT" in the grammer book for the benefit of English Leaners like me.

PP Usage: This tense may be said to be a sort of mixture of present and past. It always implies a strong connexion with the present.

I - The PP used is used for recent actions when the time is not mentioned:

A. The PP used with "just" for a recently completed action.

He has just gone out = He went out a few minutes ago.

B. The PP used for past actions whose time is not definite.

1.The PP is used for recent actions when the time is not mentioned

(e.g) I have read the instructions but I dont understand them.
(e.g) Have you had breakfast? - No, I haven't had it yet.

compare with

(e.g) I read the instructions last night ( time given, so simple past)
(e.g) Did you have breakfast at the hotel?. (i.e. before you left the hotel: simple past)

2. Recent actions in the PP often have results in the present:

(e.g) Tom has had a bad car crash (He is probaly still in hospital)
(e.g) The lift has broken down ( We have to use the stairs)

But actions expressed by the simple past without a time expressions do not normally have results in the present.

(e.g) Tom had a bad crash (but he is probably out of hospital now)
(e.g) The lift broke down ( but it is probably working again now)

Actions expressed by the PP + yet usually have results in the present.

(e.g) He hasn't come yet ( so we are still waiting for him)

C. PP can also be used for actions which occur further back in the past provided the connexion with the present is still mainteained, that is that the action could be repeated in the present.

(e.g) I have seen wolves in that forest ( implies that it is still possible to see them)
(e.g) John wrote a number of short stories ( implies that John is still alive and can write more)

If, however, the wolves have been killed off and john is dead we would say:

(e.g) I saw wolves in that forest once/several times or I used to see woves here
(e.g) John smith wrote a number of short stories.

Note also that when we use the PP in this way we are not necessasrily thinking of any one particular action ( the action may have occurred several times) or of the exact time when the action was performed. If we are thinking of one particular action performed at a particular time we are more likely to use the simple past.

msn

senthilvelann

Joined on Fri, Mar 25 2005

Full Member (107)

Expressions, Numbers, Present perfect, Simple past, Tenses

pieanne

#99172 Sat, 14 May 05 09:29 AM

Thank you for all your examples, Senthilvelaan.
I just think there's a typo: your second example for C should read:
"John has written a number of short stories" , and not wrote Smile [:)]

pieanne

Joined on Thu, Jan 20 2005

South of France ...But I'm Belgian!

Veteran Member (7,512)

I'm glad to help, but I'm not a native! And please excuse my typos...

Numbers

senthilvelann

#99176 Sat, 14 May 05 09:46 AM

Sir

II - The present perfect used for actions occuring in an imcomplete period.

A. This may be expressed by the following diagram:

|...............X..............X...................TS

Each X represents an action.
TS stands for "time of speaking" in the present.

B. An imcomplete period may be indicated by "today" or this moring/afternoon/evening/week/month/year/century etc.,"

Note that the PP can be used with "this moring" only up to about one o'clock, because after that "this morning" becomes a completed period and actions occurring in it must be put into the simple past:

(at 11 a.m) Tom has rung up three times this morning already.
(at 2 pm) Tom rang up three times this morning.

Similarly, "This afternoon" will end at about five o'clock.

(at 4 pm) I haven't seen Tom this afternoon.
(at 6 pm) I didn't see Tom this afternoon.

The PP used with an incomplete period of time implies that the action happened or didn't happen at some undefined time during this period:

(e.g) Have you seen him today? (at any time today) - Yes, I have seen him today ( at some time during the day)

But if we know that an action usually happen at a certain time or ina certain part of our incomplete period we use the simple past tense. If my alarm clock normally goes off at six, I might say at breakfast:

" My alarm clock didn't go off this morning".

Imagine that the postman normally comes between nine and ten. From nine till ten we will say

"Has the postman come yet/this morning?

But after this nine to ten period we will say:

"Did the postman come this morning?

We use the past tense here because we are thinking about a complete period of time even though we do not mention it.

C. "Lately, recently" used with the PP also indicate an imcomplete period of time.

In the sentences "Has he been here lately/recently? and " He hasn't been here lately/recently", "lately/recently" means "at any time during the last week/month etc.,; and in " He has been here recently", "recently" means " at some undefined time during the last week/month etc"

"Lately" is less usual with the affirmative, except for actions covering periods of time:

"There have been some changes lately/recently"
"He has had a lot of bad luck lately/recently".

"Recently", used with a simple past tense, means 'a short time ago':

He left recently = He left a short time ago.

msn

senthilvelann

Past tenses, Present perfect, Simple past, Tenses

senthilvelann

#99177 Sat, 14 May 05 10:17 AM

Sir

II ... continuation

D. The PP can be used similarly with ever, never, always, occasionally, often, several times etc and since + a point in time, since + clause, or since, adverb:

1. Ann: Have you ever fallen off a horse?
Tom: Yes, I've fallen off quite often/occasionally.
But if Tom's riding days are over, we would have:
Ann: Did you ever fall off a horse? (past tense)
Tom: Yes, I did occasionally/frequently.

2. I haven't seen him sine November.
Has he written since he left home?
We had a letter last week. We haven't heard since.
I've since changed my mind = I've changed my mind since then.

3. The PP can be used here for habitual actiions:

They've always answered my letters.
I've never been late for work

Sometimes these appear to be continual rather than repeated actions:

Since my accident I have written with my left hand.
I've worn glasses since my childhood.

We can then use "for+a period of time" as an alternative to "since+a point of time"

I've used my left hand hand for a month now.
I've worn glasses for ten years.

4. Note also sentences of this type:

This is the best wine I have ever drunk.
This is the worst book I have ever read.
This is the easist job I have ever had.

We can use this construction, without "ever", with "the first, the second, etc." and "the only".

It/This is the first time I have seen a mounted band.
It is only the second time he has been in a canoe.
This is the only book has has written.

msn.

senthilvelann

Adverbs, Clauses, Constructions, Past tenses, Tenses, Verbs

senthilvelann

#99181 Sat, 14 May 05 10:35 AM

Sir,

III The present perfect used for an action which lasts throughout an incomplete period

Time expression include "for, since,all day/night/week, all my etc. life, all the time, always, lately, never, recently.

A. The action usually begins in the past and continues past the time of speaking in the present.

(e.g) He has been in the army for two years ( He is still in the army)
(e.g) I have smoked since I left school ( I still smoke)
(e.g) We have waited all day ( We are still waiting)
(e.g) He has lived here all his life ( He still lives here)
(e.g) He has always worked for us ( He still works for us)

Compare the above sentences with:

(e.g) He was in the army for two years ( He is not in the army now)
(e.g) I smoked for six months ( and then stopped smoking)
(e.g) He lived here all his life ( Presumably he is now dead)

B. Sometimes, however, the action finishes at the time of speaking:

(e.g) Ann: (on meeting someone): I haven't seen you for ages, (but I see you now)
(e.g) This room hasn't been cleaned for months. (but we are cleaning it now)
(e.g) It has been very cold lately but it's just beginning to get warmer.

C. Verbs of knowing, believing and understanding cannot be used in the PP except as shown in A above.

"I have known him for a long time"
"I have never believed their theories"

So recent action, even when the time is not mentioned, must be expressed by the simple past.

(e.g) Did you know that he was going to be married? (Have you known would not be possible)
(e.g) Hello, I didn't know you were in London. How long have you been here?

"Think" and "Wonder" however can be used in II-D

(e.g) I have sometimes thought that I shoud have emigrated.
(e.g) I have often wondered why he didn't marry her.

D. Note that question/answers such as:

How lond have you been here? - I've been here six months.

will normally be followed by general inquiries in the PP about actions occuring within the period mentioned, which is regarded as an incomplete period of time:

|.............................TS (time of speaking)

because the action of staying, being etc., is not yet finished:

Have you been to the zoo/the theatre/the museums/the casino?
Have you enrolled in a school/found a job/met many people?

The answers will be in the same tense if no time is mentiond:

Yes, I have (been to the zoo etc) or
Yes, I went there last week.
No, I haven't enrolled yet or
Yes, I enrolled on Monday/this morning.

msn.

senthilvelann

Expressions, Present perfect, Simple past, Tenses, Verbs

senthilvelann

#99183 Sat, 14 May 05 10:52 AM

Sir,

IV - The present prefect used with "for" and "since"

A. "for" is used with a period of time: for six days, for a long time.
"for" is used with the simple past tense denotes a terminated period of time.

(e.g) We lived there for ten years. ( but we don't live there now)

"for" used with the PP denotes a period of time extending into the present:

(e.g) We have lived in London for ten years. ( and still live there)

"for" can sometomes be omitted. especially after "be,live and wait":

(e.g) We've been here an hour/two days.

"for(of time) is not used before expressions beginning with all:

(e.g) They've worked all night.

B. "since" is used with a point in time and means "from that point to the time of speaking". It is always used with a perfect tense, except as shown in "V" below.

(e.g) She has been here since six o'clock ( and is still here)
(e.g) We've been friends since our schooldays.

C. Note that there is difference between "last" and " the last". Compare:

(a) I have been here since last week ( month, year etc.) and
(b) I have been here for the last week.

"Last week", in (a), means a point in time above seven days ago.
"The last week", in (b), means the period of seven days just completed.

D. Since + clause is also possible.

(e.g) I've worked here since I left school.

and "ever since" (adverb):

(e.g) He had a bad fall last year and has been off work ever since.

........

V - It is + period + since + past or perfect tense

We can say

It is three years since I (last) saw Bill or
It is three years since I have seen Bill.
I last saw Bill three years ago or
I haven't seen Bill for three years.
It is two months since Tom (last) smoked a cigarette or
It is two months since Tom has smoked a cigarette.
He last smoked a cigarette two months ago or
He hasn't smoked a cigarette for two months.

We can use the "it is.........since" construction without the adverb "last"

It is two years since he left the country

This, however, is replaceable only by:

He left the country two years ago.

We could not use a negative present perfect here as in the sentence about Bill above.

He hasn't been (living) in this country for the last two year

is possible but isn't an exact equivalent of

He left two years ago.

This construction can be used in the past:

He invited me to go riding with him. But it was two years since I had ridden a horse ( I hadn't ridden a horse for two years previous to the invitation so I wasn't sure that I would enjoy it)

msn

senthilvelann

Adverbs, Clauses, Constructions, Difference between, Expressions, Invitations, Negatives, Past tenses, Present perfect, Simple past, Tenses, Verbs

senthilvelann

#99186 Sat, 14 May 05 11:05 AM

Sir

Further examples of the use of the present perfect and simple past

A.

Tom(visting Philip for the first time) : I didn't know you lived in houseboat.
Philip: I've always lived in a houseboat. I was born in one.

I thought you were still on holiday, When did you get back?
I came back last week.

Has your term started yet?
Yes, it started on Monday.

B. Note that a conversation about a past action often begins with a question and answer in the Present Perfect, but normally continues in the simple past, even when no time is given. This is because the action first mentioned has now become definite in the minds of the speakers:

Where have you been?
I've been to the cinema.
What did you see?/What was the film?
I saw "Amadeus".
Did you like it?

Husband: Where have you been?
Wife: I've been at the sales.
Husband: What have you bought:/What did you buy?
Wife: I have bought/I bought you some yellow pyjamas.
Husband: Why did you buy yellow? I hate yellow.

C. The Present Perfect is often used in newspapers and broadcasts to introduce an action which will then be described in the simple past tense. The time of the action is very often given in the second sentence:

Thirty thousand pounds' worth of jewellery has been stolen from Jonathan Wild and Company, the jewelleres. The theives broke into the flat above some time during Sunday night and entered the shop by cutting a hole in the ceiling.

But even if the time of action is not given the past tense will normally be used in the second sentence.

Two prisoners have escaped from Dartmoor. The used a ladder which had been left behind by some workmen, climbed a twenty-foot wall and got away in a stolen car.

D. The present perfect is often used in letters.

I am sorry I haven't written before but I've been very busy lately as Tom has been away.

We have carefully considered the report which you sent us on 26 April, and have decided to take the following action.

MSN.

senthilvelann

Conversations, Past tenses, Present perfect, Simple past, Tenses

senthilvelann

#99195 Sat, 14 May 05 11:13 AM

To Pieanne,

I just think there's a typo: your second example for C should read:
"John has written a number of short stories" , and not wrote

No Typo.

If John is dead we would say "John wrote a number of short stories".

msn.

senthilvelann

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