We have partnered with TradePub to bring you free industry magazines and resources - no coupons or credit cards required!

Visit: englishforums.tradepub.com


1 2
Share this topic:
Alienvoord  +  252054 Thu, 03 Aug 06 05:26 PM
CJ said "Here's what some grammar books want you to say." That's not the same as "grammatically correct".

You can use "I" after "be" in some cases, and not in others. Some grammar books have a rule that you *always* have to use "I" after "be". Such a rule is clearly at odds with usage, and therefore wrong. imo
Joined on Tue, Jul 25 2006
Toronto
Full Member 345
This is a live chat room, hosted on the chat page. You can also click here to see the chat in fullscreen.
Grammar Geek  +  252058 Thu, 03 Aug 06 05:29 PM

 Alienvoord wrote:
CJ said "Here's what some grammar books want you to say." That's not the same as "grammatically correct".

Good point. I feel relieved now.

Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006
Veteran Member 19,667
Barbara, who answers in American English. My housekeeping skills attest to the truth of the second law of thermodynamics: Left to themselves, things get more and more random!
CalifJim  +  252103 Thu, 03 Aug 06 08:54 PM
Yes, indeed.  According to the Latin-based grammatical rules that many English grammarians have accepted for years (as if English were Latin!), any tense of BE used as a linking verb produces a situation in which both the subject and the complement, i.e., the elements on both sides of the linking verb, are marked with the nominative case.  The idea was that if it was good enough for Latin, it's good enough for English.  According to the "Latin-English" theory, the addition of modifying phrases or clauses does not override the basic fact of nominative case marking.

[The person (who is selected)]  = [I / he / she]
[The ones (whom you select as the very best and most knowledgeable authority on how to play tiddly-winks)] = [ we / they].

where = can be replaced by any tense of BE, including such complex ones as might have been, had been, will not have been, will be, ...

The folly of the original Latin-based rule is easily seen in such monstrosities* as

-- I wonder who the scapegoats will be when the company goes broke?
-- I hope it won't be we. / I hope the scapegoats won't be we. / I hope and pray it will be they.

-- Who stole the tarts?
-- It wasn't we.  / If it was we, we didn't do it on purpose. /  It might well have been we or they; I don't know. / The people involved in stealing tarts could not possibly have been we, but it certainly could have been they.

-- There's someone at the door.  Could it be Elena and Jim?
-- Yes.  That'll be they.  It has always been she and he at this hour of the day.


*Well, they're monstrosities to my ear, anyway!  Smile [:)]

CJ



Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004
California
Veteran Member 22,409
"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche
Maple  +  252107 Thu, 03 Aug 06 09:11 PM

The addition of modifying phrases or clauses does not override the basic fact of nominative case marking.

The strangest among the strange were deduced "correctly" from this "rule".Big Smile [:D]

Joined on Tue, Jul 11 2006
An ESL student in China
Contributing Member 1,110
MrPedantic  +  252141 Thu, 03 Aug 06 11:30 PM

Hello GG

I would agree with CJ here. "Person" is the subject of "will be"; "selected" post-modifies "person"; "I" is the subject complement. Thus:

1. The person [who is] selected will be I.

The difficulty lies in the fact that "selected" is passive in meaning; so the subject of "selected" suffers the action.

The equivalence of case is more apparent if you reverse the sentence:

2. I will be the person [who is] selected.

See you later,

MrP

Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004
Veteran Member 12,592
...opella forensis / adducit febris...
MrPedantic  +  252143 Thu, 03 Aug 06 11:38 PM
(Sorry to be superfluous, GG, I didn't see there was a second page of posts!)

Anonymous, 18 days ago
Just say "I will be the person the cat pounces on."
1 2
© MediaCet Ltd. 2009, v5.0.3614.32638. All content posted by our users is a contribution to the public domain, this does not include imported usenet posts.*
For web related enquires please contact us on webmaster@mediacet.com, status updates are available at status.mediacet.com.
*Usenet post removal: Use 'X-No-Archive'. You may not have understood that your posts would end up in the public domain. Please send proof of the poster's email, we will remove immediately.