"I would be surprised..."

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Peaceblinkfriend

#513958 Thu, 15 May 08 12:31 PM

I would be surprised if whatever were inside the boxes were not damaged.

Suppose I am describing boxes of emergency supplies without parachutes strapped to them being dropped from aircrafts. Is that sentence correct? How else would you express the same idea?

Thanks

PBF

Peaceblinkfriend

Joined on Wed, May 9 2007

Australia

Contributing Member (1,578)

Marius Hancu

#513962 Thu, 15 May 08 12:34 PM

I would be surprised if whatever is inside the boxes were/was not damaged.

as there's no much doubt that there is something inside

Marius Hancu

Joined on Wed, Apr 26 2006

Montreal, Canada

Veteran Member (11,673)

New2grammar

#513976 Thu, 15 May 08 12:49 PM

Suppose I am describing boxes of emergency supplies without parachutes strapped to them being dropped from aircrafts.

Peace,

I hope you don't mind me trying to correct your sentence.
Aircraft is uncountable, as far as I know. Also, I think the correct preposition that goes with strapped is 'onto'.

New2grammar

Joined on Tue, Nov 21 2006

Veteran Member (7,670)

Who wants to go sailing around the world with me?

Prepositions

CalifJim

#514088 Thu, 15 May 08 05:09 PM

Peaceblinkfriend
I would be surprised if whatever were inside the boxes were not damaged.

Sounds fine to me.

(The doubt is about the identity of the contents of the boxes (whatever), not about the existence of the contents.)

Nevertheless, was can substitute for were in either or both positions.

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (16,978)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

New2grammar

#514094 Thu, 15 May 08 05:19 PM

CJ, I'm not quite sure I get your explanation.

MH has a very good point but I remember you said a long time ago (probably a year) that in cases like this, native
speakers tend to use the past tense throughout. I've been trying to apply that but
I have to say, MH's view makes more sense and more natural to me.
Could you please 'defend' native speakers' tendency?

An example that I always keep in mind as reference is

handler: If Kate knew we WERE having this conversation, she would have us killed.

Thanks!

New2grammar

Conversations, Past tenses, Tenses

CalifJim

#514104 Thu, 15 May 08 05:49 PM

I was concentrating on the choice between were and was (subjunctive vs. indicative), and I neglected to address the choice between was/were and is (past vs. present).

New2grammar
Could you please 'defend' native speakers' tendency?

You're referring to the use of past throughout once the main clause introduces the past tense. Hmmm. Defend it? That's difficult. If you're right there looking at the boxes, I suppose is is just as good as was or were. The situation is in present time, after all. I suppose that when the native speaker matches the tenses throughout a sentence, it's a matter of habit, not always a matter of logic. The basic principle is that backshifting is always correct. Not backshifting is optional, and depends on the logic of the situation.

I'm not sure if that answers your question, because I'm not sure there's ever actually a 'defense' for how people use language.

CalifJim

Clauses, Grammar, Past tenses, Subjunctives, Tenses

New2grammar

#514118 Thu, 15 May 08 06:13 PM

I'll accept habit as the reason as long as this rule always applies. Thanks, CJ.

New2grammar

Marius Hancu

#514154 Thu, 15 May 08 07:52 PM

New2grammar:

Pls be aware that there's quite a range in terms of how people use were/was in this context.

The strictest use were only in contrary-to-the-fact situations, not simply doubtful/hypothetical, if you know what I mean.

Marius Hancu

Grammar

New2grammar

#514156 Thu, 15 May 08 08:06 PM

If I understand what you mean, you would agree with my examples below. I hope.

The speaker is talking as if he is/was a professional football player. Have you seen him on TV?

The speaker is talking as if he were a professional football player. He's just a high school football coach.

New2grammar

Football

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