In according to?

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Schetin

#418457 Fri, 14 Sep 07 11:08 AM

Goodman wrote:
First. to my knowledge, there is no such usage as “in according”.

Wrong01: There is (see above).

Goodman wrote:
Secondly, According is not a gerund, nor a present participle; it's an adverb if I am not mistaken.

Wrong02: 'According' is a form, which may be both gerund and present participle; as a participle it can become an adverb, not adverbial, which is a function.

Goodman wrote:
(Did you read my last post? I said it's neither a gerund, nor a present participle9:11:20 PM

That was the reason for my remark

Goodman wrote:
Nah! not true

True Goodman, true.

Goodman wrote:
I am afraid the logic I use may present a little difficulty for you to preceive

If you call that logic... Wink [;)]

Schetin

Joined on Mon, Sep 4 2006

Moscow, Russia

Full Member (243)

Verbs, Adverbs, Gerunds

Schetin

#418469 Fri, 14 Sep 07 11:21 AM

Grammar Geek wrote:
Racial discrimination in according financial loans
That's a completely different use of the word "according" - it's more like "distributing" or "allocating" and not the idea of comporting to something, which is what we've been discussing.

Does a completely different use mean it cannot be used that way.

Since 'according' is modified by a preposition 'in', and prepositions control cases (Casus Ablativus, in this case) of nouns, and a verbal having characteristics of a noun is a gerund, 'in according' is a gerund.

You've got a form and you interpret it without likes and dislikes. There's such form and you must admit it.

Saying that there's no such form because the form you see has another meaning is at least illogical.

What are your rules?

Schetin

Grammar, Prepositions, Nouns, Gerunds

Yankee

#418509 Fri, 14 Sep 07 01:47 PM

Hi Schetin

I think you misunderstood GG. She did not say that according cannot be used that way. She only stated that it was not the specific use that was the topic of discussion in this thread.

I also agree with you that there are other ways to use the word 'according', and that 'according' can also be either a gerund or a present participle.

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Hi Ruslana
My vote would also be for 'in accordance with'. Smile [:)]

Yankee

Joined on Sat, Apr 15 2006

Connecticut, USA

Senior Member (4,293)

Amy "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." - Mark Twain

Gerunds

Schetin

#418524 Fri, 14 Sep 07 02:33 PM

Yankee wrote:
She only stated that it was not the specific use that was the topic of discussion in this thread.

Since Americans started their expansion by means of language, the rule "but don't ask me why" has become nearly universal.

There's a rule and it can be explained. That one thinks an expression sounds fine doesn't mean it is correct. I have explained why expression "in according" can't have preposition "to" - because it requires a direct object. Because the verb "accord" is transitive. You can't just accord, you have to accord something.

Accordance is a noun and can be used with preposition "with", "on", "of", about, whatever.

It's not a matter of lexis - it's grammar.

Schetin

Grammar, Verbs, Prepositions, Nouns, Expressions, Direct Objects

Grammar Geek

#418529 Fri, 14 Sep 07 02:38 PM

Thanks Yankee.

Yes, we have been discussing the phrases "in accordance with" and "according to" in specific contexts, namely, when talking about doing something you're supposed to be doing, have agreed to do, or are doing. We have been talking about what forms and combinations are appropriate in that context.

Examples of "In accordance to..." have been found, although they do not seem natural at all to me and I would never use that phrase, always using "In accordance with" myself.

However, I will continue to say that "in according with" or "in according to" -- keeping with the subject of this thread until this other example you introduced -- are not used.

Yes, when other definitions of a word are used, other combinations are possible.

Grammar Geek

Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006

Pennsylvania, USA

Veteran Member (16,064)

Barbara, who answers in American English.

Ruslana

#418533 Fri, 14 Sep 07 02:44 PM

Schetin wrote:
Goodman wrote:
I am afraid the logic I use may present a little difficulty for you to preceive
If you call that logic...

Guys, please abstain from personal attacks. Thanks.

Ruslana

Joined on Sat, Dec 17 2005

Russia

Senior Member (3,197)

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace", - Jimi Hendrix

Schetin

#418539 Fri, 14 Sep 07 02:53 PM

Ruslana,

I've known Goodman for more than a year as one whose remarks are mostly to the point. Moreover, I know that he easily admits his mistakes. There's nothing personal in our exchange. At least I don't think there is.

Schetin

Yankee

#418542 Fri, 14 Sep 07 02:58 PM

Schetin wrote:
Yankee wrote:
She only stated that it was not the specific use that was the topic of discussion in this thread.

Since Americans started their expansion by means of language, the rule "but don't ask me why" has become nearly universal.
I find that to be an exceptionally unfair and unjustified statement. There are thousands of explanations from Americans about why something should or should not be said or written in a certain way on this site alone.

There's a rule and it can be explained. That one thinks an expression sounds fine doesn't mean it is correct. I have explained why expression "in according" can't have preposition "to" - because it requires a direct object. Because the verb "accord" is transitive. You can't just accord, you have to accord something. Yes, and you can "accord something to someone" and in this case the 'something' and the 'to someone' could theoretically end up reversed. It might be a somewhat unsual usage, but it wouldn't necessarily be grammatically incorrect.

Accordance is a noun and can be used with preposition "with", "on", "of", about, whatever. I don't recall disagreeing with you on this particular point.

It's not a matter of lexis - it's grammar.

Yankee

Grammar, Verbs, Prepositions, Nouns, Expressions, Direct Objects

Schetin

#418550 Fri, 14 Sep 07 03:07 PM

Yankee,

Sorry it hurts your feelings;
You can twist it in a whatever way, the principle is the same, and, I'm afraid , the way you did it proves my POV;
If you know why "in accordance with" is correct, you can elaborate another step and understand why "in according to" is wrong.

Schetin

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