In/during

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hanuman_2000

#77133 Mon, 28 Feb 05 04:05 AM

Hello teachers,

1.This course will taught in the firdt year.

2.This course will be taught during the first year.

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1.He works in the day.

2.HE works during the day.

Which one is correct?

Thanks

hanuman_2000

Joined on Thu, Aug 12 2004

INDIA

Contributing Member (1,625)

Mister Micawber

#77154 Mon, 28 Feb 05 05:15 AM

They can both carry the same meaning, but 'in' here to me suggests a much shorter time period within the overall time period.

With 'during', it sounds as if the course is a full or half year and the workday is 8 hours (these are 'standard'). With 'in' it sounds as if the course is one quarter in length perhaps, and as if he works only 3 or 4 hours.

Mister Micawber

Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004

Yokohama

Veteran Member (22,637)

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'

paco2004

#77169 Mon, 28 Feb 05 07:22 AM

Hello Hanuman

As Mr M well explained, in the sense indicating a certain time span, 'in' and 'during' differ little and can be used interchangeably.

some time points or partial time spans in the said time span.
(o) We enjoyed cycling in the vacation.
(o) We enjoyed cycling during the vacation.

a time point or a partial time span in the said time span
(o) It began to snow/snowed in the night.
(o) It began to snow/snowed during the night.

When they are used in the sense 'at a time point in the said time span', however, there is one thing in usage that differs between them.
(o) I was born in 1985.
(x) I was born during 1985.
You cannot use 'during' when you can specify more particulary the time in the said time span.

paco

[PS]
Teachers!
This is what I have learned in school about the difference between 'in' and 'during'.
Please correct if I am wrong.

paco2004

Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004

Senior Member (4,095)

In Japan today even dogs are learning how to bow-wow in English.

Difference Between

Mister Micawber

#77248 Mon, 28 Feb 05 01:14 PM

Interesting thought, Paco:

You cannot use 'during' when you [can?] specify more particularly the time in the said time span.

I wouldn't hold strictly to the prohibition, but there is considerable truth in that observation, I think. 'I was born during 1985' sounds indeed 'off', but 'I was born during the summer of 1985' does not. Why, do you suppose?

(One other point-- I think you have incorporated an idiom, at least in AmE, where we would say 'on (the) vacation' rather than 'in'.)

Mister Micawber

Idioms

paco2004

#77325 Mon, 28 Feb 05 09:52 PM

Hello Mr M

Thank you for your kind comment as usual.

'I was born during the summer of 1985' does not sound off. Why, do you suppose?

I have no clue about this. Is it because a summer is a lengthy period compared with a day? As to this, I googled as I do usually. 'I was born during the summer of ...' hit 24 sites and 'I was born in the summer of ...' did 439 sites.

I think you have incorporated an idiom, at least in AmE, where we would say 'on (the) vacation' rather than 'in',

I thought the way like: when the 'vacation' is a specified past one (i,e. when 'vacation' is modified by 'the') I have to say 'in the vacation' rather than 'on the vacation'. But I feel now I might be wrong. By googling 'on the vacation and...' hit 864 sites while 'in the vacation and...' did 812 sites. If limited into UK domain, the former hit 10 and the latter 47. I think the hit numbers are too small to evaluate the result properly.

paco

paco2004

Numbers, Idioms

Mister Micawber

#77353 Tue, 01 Mar 05 12:08 AM

Yes, even though a year is longer than a season, 'summer' seems more durational than '1985.

Also, small numbers may result because what you googled is not the expected. 'On vacation and..' gives 246,000, while 'in vacation and' gives 5000 hits. What we need to do is analyze these hits before considering their significance-- i.e. does a low count just mean statistically unacceptable, or do they represent a valid figure? I don't have time now to look at all of these, but I noticed that the first page of my 5000 hits on 'in vacation and..' turn out to be mostly adjectives-- 'in vacation and other brochures', for instance.

It is obvious that the inclusion of 'the' is going to produce specific/previous mention cases: 'on the vacation that I took last year...'.

I should narrow my statement to: 'on vacation' is the (AmE?) idiom for the holiday experience, as in 'we have been on vacation for two weeks now'. My critique would better have read:

X We enjoyed cycling in the vacation.
(o) We enjoyed cycling on the vacation we took last year.
(o) We enjoyed cycling on vacation.
(o) We enjoyed cycling during the vacation.

Mister Micawber

Numbers, Idioms

nona the brit

#77360 Tue, 01 Mar 05 12:20 AM

Brit English differs here.

For a start we do not use the word vacation. We use holiday.

We can be on holiday, do things on our holiday or during our holiday. But we are never in holiday except for the adjective use mentioned above, for example 'it didn't say the hotel was next to the sewage farm in the holiday brochure!'

However, the classic school exam every September is entitled 'What I did in the holidays' - meaning the long summer break. I don't know why holidays is used in the plural in this case, and why it isn't 'during' but every child says it and every teacher sets it as an exercise!

nona the brit

Joined on Wed, Sep 22 2004

England

Veteran Member (11,450)

The name says it all.

Plurals

paco2004

#77379 Tue, 01 Mar 05 12:55 AM

Hello Mr M again!

To avoid adjectival use of 'vacation' I add 'and' to the prepositional phrases like 'in/on the vacation and'. If "in/on the vacation the" is used as the extract, the googling result would be:
... in the vacation (,) the ... (COM) 27 (UK) 27
... on the vacation (,) the ...(COM) 371 (UK) 11
As the result is like this, I have to admit that 'in the vacation' is a wrong phrase as far as it is used as AmE. The low ability in distinguishing AmE and BrE is one of my weak points in English knowledge.

paco

paco2004