infinitive

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Taka  #476703  Thu, 14 Feb 08 03:59 AM

CalifJim
 
I learned a good way to ensure the absence of typing mistakes.

doyou think the infinitive phrase is adverbial?
I don't.  Ittells something about the 'way'; it's not the purpose or reason forlearning.  You're not going to say  In order to ensure the absence of typing mistakes, I learned a good way.

CJ 



CJ, I remember you said when the verb is an action towards some purpose, the infinitive added is adverbial.

CJ, MrP, what is the decicive factor to tell if the infinitive in 'V+noun+to do' is adverbial or adjectival? Just intuition?
  
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CalifJim  #476742  Thu, 14 Feb 08 06:38 AM
 
I remember you said when the verb is an action towards some purpose, the infinitive added is adverbial.

Yes.  The case at hand is not adverbial because the alternate sentence I wrote, with an attempt to make it adverbial, makes no sense.  "Learning a way" on its own makes no sense.

Looked at a different way, words which give primary categories like way, time, place, person (nouns which correspond to question words like how, when, where, who, etc.) are often followed by adjectival infinitive phrases.

<> the place to go

the person to see

time to rest

And intuition may play a role, but we can do our best to explain what lies behind the intuition.

CJ 

  
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Taka  #476956  Thu, 14 Feb 08 06:05 PM
CalifJim

 but we can do our best to explain what lies behind the intuition.

CJ 


That's what I'm trying to do here. Glad you said that, Jim!

Now, do you see both infinitives below equally as adverbial or as adjectival, or one as adverbial but the other as adjectival?

(1)I need some way to stop my headache.
(2)I need something to stop my headache.
  
Anonymous  #476975  Thu, 14 Feb 08 07:23 PM
I see both infinitive clauses as adjectival complements.
I could not come up with an idea to interpret the infinitive in #2 as an adverbial element.
  
Hoa Thai  #476985  Thu, 14 Feb 08 08:01 PM

Hi,

I would like to share with you the way I was taught to test a purpose clause to determine whether it is adverbial or adjectival (relative).Here it is for you to review to see if that teaching is off base:

If we look at a noun in the main clause and can insert a relative pronoun right after it to show that the pronoun can become the subject of the verb in the purpose clause, the purpose clause is adjectival. If we cannot, it is adverbial. For example:


adjectival:

I need a nurse to care for my mom.

It is the nurse who can care for my mom - not I; therefore, to care for my mom is adjectival. As we can see, that sentence can be rewritten as follows:

I need a nurse who can care for my mom.

 

adverbial:

The soldiers took back some land to build the school.

Now, since the land cannot build the school, to build the school is definitely adverbial. In fact, the sentence can be rewritten without changing its meaning as follows:

The soldiers took back some land so that they could build the school.

 

So back to Taka’s statement, “I need some way to stop my headache.” Is 'to stop my headache’ adverbial or adjectival? To answer that, we need to determine whether I or some way stops the headache.

Evidently, it is not I who stops the headache else I would not need a way. Therefore, in this case the subject of stop is the omitted relative pronoun that that stands for some way. Hence, ‘to stop my headache’ is adjectival.

  
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CalifJim  #477090  Fri, 15 Feb 08 03:04 AM
 I hear the first (some way) as totally adjectival.

I hear the second (something) as mostly adjectival but with a little adverbial flavor as well. 

 

CJ 

  
Taka  #477106  Fri, 15 Feb 08 03:47 AM
CalifJim
 

 

I hear the second (something) as mostly adjectival but with a little adverbial flavor as well. 

 

I like the way you describe it Jim. With a little adverbial flavor as well. Getting back to this example:

 

'Growing up in a society, we learn how to use gestures, glances, slight changes in tone of voice, and other auxiliary communication devices to alter or emphasize what we say and do.'

, don't you detect a little adjectival flavor as well in the infinitive 'to alter...', however little it may be? 

  
CalifJim  #477111  Fri, 15 Feb 08 04:05 AM
 The thought hadn't occurred to me, but I'll say, "Yes, a little", if it will make you feel happier!

The dominant feel, to my ear, is that we learn how to do X so that we can alter or emphasize, not that we learn how to use those Y's which allow us to alter or emphasize. 

CJ 

  
Taka  #477113  Fri, 15 Feb 08 04:13 AM
Jim, if the sentence were this:

 'Growing up in a society, we learn how to use gestures, glances, slight changes in tone of voice, and other things to alter or emphasize what we say and do.' 

would the amount of adjectival flavor be the same as the original?

  
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