Voxxi  +  116838 Sat, 09 Jul 05 07:29 PM                   I have a problem that has bothered me for days.  Can you help me?   It is about infinitive clauses.  To illustrate my problem, here is a sentence:   "I want him to come home."   Is "to come home" the object complement, or is "him to come home" the direct object? Voxxi Joined on Sat, Jul 9 2005 Interstellar New Member 36 Twinkle, twinkle little st r ... Clauses, Direct Objects, Infinitive Clauses

	paco2004  +  116889 Sun, 10 Jul 05 04:28 AM Hello Voxii Welcome to this Forum. I am an English learner from Japan. Here we have many native English speakers who are versed in grammar. So I think I had better wait until some of them comes to answer your question. But if you don't mind it, let me throw my two yens worth (I'm a Japanese). I want him to come home. I told him to go home. The sentence #1 is a so-called "object-with-infinitive" (or "accusative-with-infinitive) construction. Here you can take the whole of "him to come home" as the object of "want". On the other hand, in the sentence #2, the object of "told" is only "him", and "to go home" is the complement of "him". You can paraphrase this sentence as "I told him that he should go home". But you cannot paraphrase the sentence #1 in this way. You will see that "I want him that he should/would come home" is unnatural. Hope this helps you at least a little. paco paco2004 Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004 Senior Member 4,095 In Japan today even dogs are learning how to bow-wow in English. Constructions, Grammar, Accusative

	Voxxi  +  116961 Sun, 10 Jul 05 12:07 PM Thanks Paco,                    So ... you say "him to come home" is the direct object.  Yes, I think you are right.  However, several people I have spoken  to, including linguists, claim that "him" is the direct object and "to come home" is the object complement.  You and I are in a minority ... so far! Best wishes, ***   Voxxi Direct Objects

	Voxxi  +  116964 Sun, 10 Jul 05 12:15 PM Oh, and further, regarding your second sentence ... you paraphrased it using a noun clause.  Am I to assume that the infinitive is nominative? -v Voxxi Nouns, Clauses, Nominative

	paco2004  +  116997 Sun, 10 Jul 05 02:49 PM Hello Some infinitive clauses are difficult to be grouped into "nominative use", "adjectival use" or "adverbial use". Take "to go home" in "I told him to go home", for example. This "to go home" is the target to which "I" directed "him" by the action "tell". If one paraphrases this sentence, it would be "I told him so" rather than "I told him it". paco paco2004 Clauses, Nominative, Infinitive Clauses

	Voxxi  +  117017 Sun, 10 Jul 05 04:04 PM  Paco2004 wrote: Hello Some infinitive clauses are difficult to be grouped into "nominative use", "adjectival use" or "adverbial use". Take "to go home" in "I told him to go home", for example. This "to go home" is the target to which "I" directed "him" by the action "tell". If one paraphrases this sentence, it would be "I told him so" rather than "I told him it". paco     You mean that it CANNOT be accurately grouped?   -V     Voxxi Clauses, Nominative, Infinitive Clauses

	paco2004  +  117097 Sun, 10 Jul 05 11:17 PM Hello Yes, you're right. If I'm forced to group the infinitive "to go home" from the standpoint of syntactic sentence patterns into one of "nominative use", "adjectival use" and "adverbial use, I would choose "nominative use". But, from the semantic standpoint, "to go home" seems to me to function somehow as the complement of "him" and somehow as the adverb of "told". It is very subtle. paco paco2004 Verbs, Nominative, Adverbs

	CalifJim  +  117159 Mon, 11 Jul 05 05:01 AM I'm willing to join your group in saying that "him to come home" is the direct object of "want".  The "for ... to ..." clause is "for him to come home".  This, as a whole, is what is wanted, so it is the direct object of "want".  The "for" is always deleted after the verb "want". CJ CalifJim Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004 California Veteran Member 22,389 "There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche Verbs, Clauses, Direct Objects

	paco2004  +  117176 Mon, 11 Jul 05 06:02 AM Hello CJ It's long time since I saw your last post. How it's going with you?  CalifJim wrote: I'm willing to join your group in saying that "him to come home" is the direct object of "want".  The "for ... to ..." clause is "for him to come home".  This, as a whole, is what is wanted, so it is the direct object of "want".  The "for" is always deleted after the verb "want". I'm glad to know we are the majority on this issue, at least here.  :-)  paco paco2004 Verbs, Clauses, Direct Objects