He insisted on my/me singing a song.

Hi folks,

This morning (the morning in Vietnam), I read the great debate on the topic ‘gerund vs. present participle' from many excellent participants. I really do not dare to touch that subject for I know my limitation But here is my question:

Why can’t I find insist on somebody doing something usage in any dictionaries? I tried Longman Dictionary of Modern English, The American Heritage Dictionary, Cambridge Advanced Learner’s Dictionary, and Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary to no avail.

All I found were these two usages of insist on:

1. insist on: to say firmly and often that something is true, especially when other people think it may not be true.

            She kept insisting on her innocence.

2. insist on doing something: to keep doing something, especially something that is inconvenient or annoying OR to be firm in a demand or course; refuse to yield.

            She will insist on washing her hair just when I want to have a bath.

When they give an example ‘with somebody’, they always show: insist that you / he / she / etc…

If we apply the two available definitions, wouldn’t ‘insist on me (doing)’ be wrong? Maybe not 'wrong', but a hot potato!

How about ‘insist on my singing’? Could we treat ‘my singing’ in the same fashion as ‘doing' in the above definition? If so, Grammar Geek’s suggestion must be correct. Otherwise, we must offer an explanation why that is not.

Hoa Thai wrote:

Hi folks, This morning (the morning in Vietnam), I read the great debate on the topic ‘gerund vs. present participle' from many excellent participants. I really do not dare to touch that subject for I know my limitation But here is my question: Why can’t I find insist on somebody doing something usage in any dictionaries? I tried Longman Dictionary of Modern English, The American Heritage Dictionary, Cambridge Advanced Learner’s Dictionary, and Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary to no avail. All I found were these two usages of insist on: 1. insist on: to say firmly and often that something is true, especially when other people think it may not be true.             She kept insisting on her innocence. 2. insist on doing something: to keep doing something, especially something that is inconvenient or annoying OR to be firm in a demand or course; refuse to yield.             She will insist on washing her hair just when I want to have a bath. When they give an example ‘with somebody’, they always show: insist that you / he / she / etc… If we apply the two available definitions, wouldn’t ‘insist on me (doing)’ be wrong? Maybe not 'wrong', but a hot potato! How about ‘insist on my singing’? Could we treat ‘my singing’ in the same fashion as ‘doing' in the above definition? If so, Grammar Geek’s suggestion must be correct. Otherwise, we must offer an explanation why that is not.

Hi Hao,

You asked: Why can’t I find insist on somebody doing something usage in any dictionaries?

This is atucally a common usage.

Sorry about the confusion. You are correct.  Only your last sentence (I insist that he speak English) uses a subjunctive form of 'speak'.

Thanks for clarifying it for me!

Hoa Thai wrote:

Goodman wrote: You asked: Why can’t I find insist on somebody doing something usage in any dictionaries? Hi Goodman, That was exactly what I asked.   Is 'She insisted on John speaking for us all' correct? I thought the dictionaries suggest that we should say, "She insisted that John spoke for us all' instead. EDIT:  The reason I raised the question is to point out the difference between 'insist on me singing' and 'insist on my singing'. In other words, 'me' is a pronoun that can stand on its on, while 'my' must accompany / pair with another word / phrase. In that sense, the 'somebody' goes well with 'me', not 'my'. 'My singining' should be considered as the 'doing' instead.

Hi Hao,

I think the confusion  lies in the word "insist".

She insists that (not "on") you take the trip to China for the contract signing meeting (subjunctive) = She insists on your (not you) talking the trip to China for the contract signing meeting. Meaning is the same but structures are not.