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Englishuser  +  309070 Sun, 31 Dec 06 11:48 AM

The males adopt the changes in the hope of seeming more attractive to the younger females

But why are the changes lead by women? It could also be the other way around, couldn't it?

Englishuser

Joined on Thu, Mar 30 2006
Regular Member 717
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Marvin A.  +  309166 Sun, 31 Dec 06 04:57 PM
 Englishuser wrote:

What's interesting is that these changes are led by younger female speakers.  Older speakers and male speakers adopt these kind of changes later.

Yes, that really is interesting. Why are the changes led by younger female speakers in particular? What about younger male speakers?

Englishuser


Yes, that is an interesting question.  Here's what I could find:

http://journals.cambridge.org/production/action/cjoGetFulltext?fulltextid=43356
"...sound changes that are not stigmatized are led especially by young women who are the 'movers and shakers' in the community, people with energy and enterprise. Such young women, at the same time, are conservative with respect to sound changes or stable linguistic variables that are stigmatized."

http://cf.hum.uva.nl/poldernederlands/english/lin_polder.htm
"It is in fact common for sound changes to be initiated by women (see Labov 2001: 366-382) . . . Van Bezooijen and van den Berg (2001) have shown that young women, as opposed to older women, identify with the new variety, and clearly more so than their male counterparts. The speakers of the new variety are not aware of the fact that their pronunciation of the language differs in any linguistically relevant way from the standard variety. When accused of using the avant-garde pronunciation their first reaction is denial..."

This is interesting.  Although the California vowel shift does not stick out that much to me, as it's fairly similar to that of my own dialect, the Northern Cities vowel shift does, because it has practically opposite features.  I have definitely found this to be true.  Most younger females from the Northern Midwest have very strong accents to me--I can usually recognize that they're proabably from the Northern Midwest just by them saying one sentence--especially one the contains the vowel /æ/, as they diphthongize it to [ i@ ] or [ e@ ] which is quite noticible.  Male speakers on the other hand usually have a much slighter accent, that doesn't differ from my own enough to be immediately noticible.  Older speakers are less likely to have the shift.
Joined on Fri, Dec 8 2006
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MrPedantic  +  309272 Mon, 01 Jan 07 12:12 AM
 Englishuser wrote:

The males adopt the changes in the hope of seeming more attractive to the younger females

But why are the changes lead by women? It could also be the other way around, couldn't it?

Englishuser

I see males attempting to impress females very much more often than I see females attempting to impress males.

MrP

Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004
Veteran Member 13,616
...opella forensis / adducit febris...
Marvin A.  +  309315 Mon, 01 Jan 07 03:51 AM
 Englishuser wrote:

The males adopt the changes in the hope of seeming more attractive to the younger females

But why are the changes lead by women? It could also be the other way around, couldn't it?


Englishuser


Linguistic Change and Variation in Philadelphia [LCV] (Labov, 2001)
Conformity Paradox: Women deviate less than men from linguistic norms when the deviations are overtly proscribed, but more than men when the deviations are not proscribed (367)
Anonymous, 2 yr 308 days ago

 Mike In Japan wrote:
I once heard it claimed that a language forms the fundamental fabric of a society, enabling clear communication between members of that society. Any erosion of that fabric, it was claimed, would tend to erode the society.
Is American English simply lazy English with disregard for the fundamentals of the language, or is it a valid simplification of an overly complex and irregular language? Huh? [:^)]
Though i love american english....i may consider it as a lazy one...lol..for the fact that it contains a lot of irregular language(created by peole) in it...

Elida

Marvin A.  +  310986 Sat, 06 Jan 07 01:39 AM

hough i love american english....i may consider it as a lazy one...lol..for the fact that it contains a lot of irregular language(created by peole) in it...

Elida



What is "irregular language"?
Mike in Japan  +  310995 Sat, 06 Jan 07 02:33 AM
 Marvin A. wrote:

hough i love american english....i may consider it as a lazy one...lol..for the fact that it contains a lot of irregular language(created by peole) in it...

Elida



What is "irregular language"?

See the bolded text, above, for an example. :-)
Joined on Tue, Aug 19 2003
Senior Member 4,588
I do like to be beside the seaside
Marvin A.  +  311006 Sat, 06 Jan 07 03:46 AM
 Mike In Japan wrote:
 Marvin A. wrote:

hough i love american english....i may consider it as a lazy one...lol..for the fact that it contains a lot of irregular language(created by peole) in it...

Elida



What is "irregular language"?

See the bolded text, above, for an example. :-)


Ah, I see.  But that's known as "American Engrish", not "American English."
Mike in Japan  +  311020 Sat, 06 Jan 07 05:09 AM
So Smile [:)] it is.
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