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Latest post Sun, Jul 3 2005 7:38 AM by paco2004. 12 replies.
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infinity  +  113853 Thu, 30 Jun 05 06:36 AM
I don't know when it was, but the example of connecting a verb and proverb was discussed here in this forum. Some said, "Do you know if she is around and going to the meeting?" was ungrammatical, and the other said it might have been but it sounded perfectly OK. Then I am wondering if this sentence below is OK.

He has a great personality and been the most popular kid in my class.

Thanks, in advance.

(P.S. Thanks CJ, for your advice on my last post.)
Joined on Sun, Apr 24 2005
Junior Member 61
ranchhand  +  113876 Thu, 30 Jun 05 01:22 PM

 infinity wrote:
I don't know when it was, but the example of connecting a verb and proverb was discussed here in this forum. Some said, "Do you know if she is around and going to the meeting?" was ungrammatical, and the other said it might have been but it sounded perfectly OK. Then I am wondering if this sentence below is OK.

I'll venture that "Do you know if she is around and going to the meeting?" is grammatical. It's just an ellipted, "Do you know if she is around and [if she is] going to the meeting?"

He has a great personality and been the most popular kid in my class.

To my mind, this doesn't work either grammatically or semantically.  He has a great personality and is [been] the most popular kid in my class.

Joined on Sun, May 15 2005
Junior Member 81
MrPedantic  +  113886 Thu, 30 Jun 05 01:56 PM

 infinity wrote:
He has a great personality and been the most popular kid in my class.

A very awkward example of zeugma: 'have' here acts both as a main verb (has great personality) and an auxiliary (has been).

So no, it doesn't really work!

MrP

Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004
Veteran Member 12,592
...opella forensis / adducit febris...
Anonymous, 4 yr 146 days ago

Thank you very much, sir.

I guess it was paco, who'd used the same logic as you did here in order to explain why "…is around here and going to the meeting" is ungrammatical.  Isn't this 'is' in 'is going to' an auxiliary?

paco2004  +  114177 Fri, 01 Jul 05 08:58 AM

Hello Infinity(?)

 

At that time I was rather against "is around and going to ~". But now I'm inclined to think that it is OK. It is believed to be a rule that "and" connects two syntactic units of same sort. But this rule does not prohibit the use of a phrase like "is around and going to ~". Perhaps we can say even a sentence like "She is a Japanese student and going to marry an American guy next spring. The question is what the "units of same sort" means exactly. It is unlikely "units of the same sorts" necessarily means "words that belong to the same part of speech". Frankly, I myself am still troubled with this issue.

 

paco

Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004
Senior Member 4,095
In Japan today even dogs are learning how to bow-wow in English.
infinity  +  114203 Fri, 01 Jul 05 10:01 AM

Dear paco,
Then what do you think about this one?
"My girlfriend wants to buy a cat which already has a name and been registered."

As MrPedantic pointed out, would this be unacceptable?

paco2004  +  114257 Fri, 01 Jul 05 12:02 PM

Hello Infinity

 

The answer is definitely "No". But I think what you want to know is not that kind of answer. I guess you are seeking any rules about coordinate conjunction using "and". I myself, by surveying books and online sites, have looked for any articles describing such rules. But it has been rather a vain effort until right now. It is likely the question you are raising still remains to want further studies. There must be some constraints on the "and" coordination. However, the constraints may be too complicated to be understood in a simple way. For example, we can say "John and Bill broke the window", but it is said "John and the hammer broke the window" sounds weird to most native speakers. Perhaps we can say "She was a young Japanese and attending an English school". But I'm not sure whether we can change it into "She was attending an English school and a young Japanese".

 

paco

Eimai_Anglos  +  114471 Sat, 02 Jul 05 01:42 AM
QUOTE: But it has been rather a vain effort until right now.

This implies that you have just been successful. however, I think you mean: "But it has been rather a vain effort so far" - meaning that the effort is not yet complete.

QUOTE: Perhaps we can say "She was a young Japanese and attending an English school". But I'm not sure whether we can change it into "She was attending an English school and a young Japanese".

You can not. That would imply that she was attending a young Japanese - whatever that means!

Sumimasen.
Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005
Regular Member 509
Martin - native English speaker and technical author.
Eimai_Anglos, 4 yr 146 days ago
To answer the original question: you can't use "been" without the preceeding verb "has" or "have".
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