Is 'As such' used wrongly?

Hi,

1.While it is true that 'as such' can sometimes be replaced by 'therefore', that doesn't mean that these terms have the same meaning.

2. Now let's look again at the 100 parts scenario. Simply put, my position is that 'as such' has to refer to an antecedent that is a noun. Your suggestions are actions, verbs, ie 'remove, verify, check'.

Once again, let me point out that 'verify' and 'check' are not even explicitly mentioned in the first sentence. And you haven't even mentioned the verb 'lay'. You seem to be expecting the reader to attempt to read the writer's mind. 'As such' does not convey to me that I have to use so much interpretation. It should be easy to see what it refers back to. 

If you want to refer back to actions, I suggest that you should say something like

 _{After you have performed all these actions, all 100 parts required are (will have been) accounted for before opening the individual wrapping.}

_{Having completed these steps, you have now accounted for all 100 parts before opening the individual wrapping.}

_Clive

 

Clive,

 _{After you have performed all these actions, all 100 parts required are (will have been) accounted for before opening the individual wrapping.}

_{Having completed these steps, you havve now accounted for all 100 parts before opening the individual wrapping.}

_{The particluar discussion was revolving "as such" and that was the reason I had made up that scenario which is under scrutiny. There are many other alternatives to replace "as such" for the "parts" context.}

1. "As such" -as being what is indicated or suggested - must the mentioned or the suggested be "nouns"? Can it be a procedure or situation? To me, that whole sequence is a procedure which qualified it as a noun or a situation. I think we have expressed our views and explained why we believe what we believe. For what it is worth, wrong or right, I just made that scenario up for demo purpose. Thanks,

Hi,

It's OK, guys. It was a good discussion.

Now, please, let's move on to another thread.

Clive

Goodman wrote:

Yoong Liat wrote: I assume you're Goodman. Clive has already explained why the sentence is wrong. I've also said that I now recall my friend telling me that 'As such' must refer back to the subject of the sentence. I've also mentioned that the sentence that Clive provided is an example of the correct usage of 'As such'. I thought the discussion should have ended. Clive was faster in replying. Liat, Yes, I am Goodman. I posted the last one without realizing I had been logged out. I am not hiding behind the “anonymous”, if that’s what you were hinting.   <<< my friend telling me that 'As such' must refer back to the subject of the sentence….> I don’t think I need to be told that this is the explanation. I can find it on- line. I also don’t pretend to know something by relying on the words of others which you seem to do quite often. As unpopular as I may be  with my straight- shooter style, I didn’t plan on winning any  popularity contest  for which I am likely to lose. It is not a coincidence that we don’t seem to agree on any subject. And you have a tendency to “jump on the band wagon” as I observed. Lastly, don’t think too hard. This discussion will end, but not on your behalf.

Goodman wrote: I also don’t pretend to know something by relying on the words of others which you seem to do quite often.

You seem to forget that I was the one who posted the question regarding "as such''.

If I pretend to know something by relying on the words of others, I wouldn't have been able to answer queries from posters so frequently. I'm able to do so because I often painstaking refer to dictionaries and other authoritative sources.

On the other hand, you often insist that you're right without any concrete proof such as authoritative websites. You seem to forget that you're a non-native speaker. And you've insisted that you're right although Clive has convincingly shown that you're wrong.

As Clive said, let this discussion end and let us proceed to another thread.

Best wishes

Dear Goodman,

When I wrote "you could be right though!" I meant about the removing of the 'but' in "The store does not sell books as such, but it sells magazines ..."

As I said in my first post, I don't use as such at all. The reason is its repetitive nature hiding behind as such. If I have to rewrite "I am an English teacher, and as such I ...", I would write, "Being an English teacher, I ..."

After I saw your example about the '100 parts', I did not think it was the same as what I'd learned from the book. However, I did attempt to search examples on Internet to find out if people often use the as such phrase as you think it could be used. Here is what I found from 'language log' archived by the University of Pensylvania:

"It all starts with phrases of the form "As <descriptive noun phrase>, <modified noun phrase> <has some relevant property>":
As a parent, I found this book highly informative.
As a policeman, he's expected to inform the FBI, but instead he becomes a bounty hunter.
Sometimes the descriptive noun phrase has already been used in a previous clause, and to avoid repetition, the anaphor such is substituted."

I also found the use of as such is rather controversial through various writings by highly acclaimed writers. After reading the posts for this thread, I can see that clearly - even among a small group of people who can teach me a lot about English do disagree.

If you believe your way of using as such to refer to a noun-like expression - treated like a descriptive noun phrase - no matter how obscured it is, you must have agreed with its grammatical nature. Then it is a confirmation that ESL learners should take to heart.

Since Clive think we should move on, I don't know if I can find out from him why he thought that 'Anon' was me - I wonder?

Best Regards to all,
Hoa Thai