Englishuser  +  282746 Wed, 18 Oct 06 07:22 PM Hello, Differencies between native and non-native Englishes have been discussed quite a few times in the forums. How would you define 'native speaker' or 'first language'? Is a person who learns a language in their earliest childhood, but who moves to another country at the age of four learning a new language and losing the old one a native speaker of their 'first language' at the age of 25? Englishuser Englishuser Joined on Thu, Mar 30 2006 Regular Member 717

	Mister Micawber  +  282910 Thu, 19 Oct 06 07:05 AM Please see Post:71300ff. Mister Micawber Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004 Yokohama Veteran Member 30,805 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'

	milky  +  282957 Thu, 19 Oct 06 10:21 AM And is there such a thing as a native speaker of World Englishes? Title: The Native Speaker of World Englishes. Authors: Davies, Alan Descriptors: English; English (Second Language); Foreign Countries; Native Speakers; Second Language Learning; Standard Spoken Usage Journal/Source Name: Journal of Pan-Pacific Association of Applied Linguistics http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/Home.portal;jsessionid=F31DQhD3PBNFHYxp14WCBJjrG0l7X625YBlXhhtjnTQQbKv7p2k9!-832301940?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=Home_page milky Joined on Thu, Jan 15 2004 Senior Member 3,149 Hume said that if we had perfect or complete descriptive knowledge of reality, we could not, by reasoning, derive a single valid "ought".

	milky  +  282959 Thu, 19 Oct 06 10:42 AM The book concludes that, with the exception of early childhood exposure, all characteristics of the native speaker are contingent. It suggests that it is possible for those contingent characteristics (e.g., grammatical institutions and creativity) to be acquired without substantive early exposure, although this is difficult and rare. The book concludes that the fundamental opposition between native and non-native speakers is one of power, with native speaker membership determined by the non-native speaker's willingness to assume confidence and identity. Title: The Native Speaker: Myth and Reality. Bilingual Education and Bilingualism. Authors: Davies, Alan Descriptors: Applied Linguistics; Communicative Competence (Languages); Language Maintenance; Language Proficiency; Mutual Intelligibility; Native Speakers; Psycholinguistics; Second Language Learning; Sociolinguistics milky

	milky  +  282960 Thu, 19 Oct 06 10:44 AM Hope this is useful: In this chapter, I discuss the role of the native speaker in applied linguistics and set out the different interpretations of the concept. I begin with the issue of the native speaker as identity; then I consider various definitions of the concept. I then examine the relation between the native speaker and the non-native speaker and raise the question of whether a second or foreign language learner who starts learning after puberty can become a native speaker of the target language. This brings us back to the issue of identity: I consider four ways of coping with the issue of loss of identity as a native speaker. I conclude that the native speaker concept remains ambiguous, necessarily so, since it is both myth and reality. http://www.arts.ed.ac.uk/celtic/poileasaidh/daviesseminar.html milky