Is/Will

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Marius Hancu

#311609 Sun, 07 Jan 07 01:45 AM

Elida wrote:
"As long as there'll be music, we'll be coming back again"

"As long as there is music, we'll be coming back again"

The main sentence is
we'll be coming back again
which clearly defines the time of the activity (the future).

Under these circumstances, the tense in the subordinate:
As long as there'll be music
is usually simplified to the present tense without any loss of clarity
As long as there is music
(Swan, Practical English Usage, Tense Simplification).

Marius Hancu

Joined on Wed, Apr 26 2006

Montreal, Canada

Veteran Member (11,673)

Anonymous

#311619 Sun, 07 Jan 07 02:15 AM

But from what i know...when we're in a sentence like this: "i don't know when he'll..."...we can't use "will..".

Yes, you can use "will" in that sentence, since 'he'll' is a contraction of 'he will'.

Most people will say he'll simply because it's faster. English is like that, taking the easy way out. Smile [:)]

Anonymous

Contractions

Ant_222

#311631 Sun, 07 Jan 07 02:48 AM

Yeah... I am sorry I did confuse you, Elida!

«From what i've learnt...this is not correct. i mean...we can't use "will" after "when".. »

There're (almost) no such primitive (syntax-level) and yet usable rules in English, AFAIK.

«I will do it when he comes» — correct.
«I will do it when he will come» — incorrect (IMHO).

But:
«I don't know when he will come» — correct.
«I don't know when he comes» — incorrect.

See the difference <img src="/emoticons/emotion-5.gif" alt="Wink [;)]" />

In the first sentence the phrase "when he comes" is a "trigger" that reacts when a condition (he's come) is satisfied.

In the second sentence, "when he will come" plays a different role.

In grammar terms, those cluses belong to two different types of adverbial clause.

Marius:
«...is usually simplified to the present tense...»

As I remeber, in Swan some kinds if tense simplificauion were required. And it seems to me this is the case in our case... Tell me if I am wrong.

Ant_222

Joined on Sun, May 21 2006

Podolsk, Russia

Contributing Member (1,584)

Grammar, Tenses, Clauses, Present Tenses

Selecter

#311633 Sun, 07 Jan 07 02:55 AM

Marius Hancu wrote:
Elida wrote:
"As long as there'll be music, we'll be coming back again"

"As long as there is music, we'll be coming back again"
The main sentence is
we'll be coming back again
which clearly defines the time of the activity (the future).

Under these circumstances, the tense in the subordinate:
As long as there'll be music
is usually simplified to the present tense without any loss of clarity
As long as there is music
(Swan, Practical English Usage, Tense Simplification).

Music is and will always be. I think the second sentence is more grammatically correct. Besides, the first one may confuse a learner.

Selecter

Joined on Fri, Jan 20 2006

Slavic Russia

Full Member (297)

Please correct my mistakes if there are any.

Tenses, Present Tenses

Ouc

#311636 Sun, 07 Jan 07 03:02 AM

One answer from: [link]

Dictionary Directory > Words > Dictionary

as long as
conj.

During the time that: I'll stay as long as you need me.
Since: As long as you've offered, I accept.
On the condition that: I will cooperate as long as I am notified on time.

if (document.getElementById('nistar'))document.getElementById('nistar').disabled=true;

Idioms

Directory > Words > Idioms

as long as

1. For the period of time that, as in You may keep the book as long as you want, that is, keep it for whatever time you wish to. [Early 1400s]
2. Also, so long as. Since, because, as in Please pick up some milk as long as you are going to the store, or So long as you're here, you might as well stay for dinner.
3. Also, so long as; just so. Provided that, as in As long as you don't expect it by tomorrow, I'll make the drawing, or So long as sales are greater than returns, the company will make a profit, or You may have another cookie, just so you don't take the last one. [Early 1800s]

Another explanation from BBC: [link]

as long as: expressing time

The as ... as construction is used when we are making comparisons and comparing ideas of similar magnitude or duration

There was extra time, so the football match lasted as long as the concert.
He worked for as long as he wanted to on the project.
"Take as long as you like," they said. "There's no hurry!"
As long as I live, I shall smoke no more cigarettes.

as long as: expressing condition

Note that as long as is also used in conditional sentences as an alternative to provided, meaning if and only if. So long as is also possible in this context:

I don't mind. You can leave early, as long as you finish the work.
I don't mind. You can go home early, so long as you finish the work.
I don't mind. You can leave after lunch, provided you finish all the work.

Ouc

Joined on Mon, Jan 1 2007

New Member (09)

Grammar, Constructions, Conditionals, Idioms, Football, Images

Anonymous

#311637 Sun, 07 Jan 07 03:07 AM

Hi Selecter! That's not the real reason for using Present Simple.

Your explanation doesn't apply to this sentence, for example.
«...I won't be afraid As long as you stand by me» (C).

In adverbial clauses tenses are used in a different way than in main clauses.

Anonymous

Tenses, Clauses, Present Simple

Ant_222

#311644 Sun, 07 Jan 07 03:25 AM

Ok, now I can tell the difference.

«I don't know when he will come» — an adjective clause.

«I'll do it when he comes» — an adverb clause.

And the poster above was me.

Ant_222

Verbs, Clauses, Adverbs

rishonly

#311646 Sun, 07 Jan 07 03:34 AM

Anonymous wrote:

"i don't know when he'll..."...we can't use "will..".

Hi,

Your example is fine to me and it doesn't violate any grammar rules. The tricky part is identifying the function of "when" in sentences. If "when" is used as a time adverbial conjunction in a sentence, then "when...will" construction in the subordinate clause is wrong. Nonetheless, in your example, "when" is not a time adverbial conjunction rather it just begins an indirect question. So, it is OK to use "will" after "when" in the indirect questions. For example, the following sentences are indirect statements and "when" begins an indirect question. In these sentences, the usage of "when" after "will" is valid.

I don't know when he will.....

I am not sure when he will..

rishonly

Joined on Sat, Mar 5 2005

KUMBAKONAM,INDIA

Contributing Member (1,781)

Regards, Krish

Grammar, Constructions, Clauses, Indirect Questions, Direct Questions

Selecter

#311647 Sun, 07 Jan 07 03:46 AM

I can't imagine any other meanings of when except the one I am aware of - when referring to a time point. I see at least two meaning in my dictionary but I can't understand. Could you tell me some synonyms of conjunctive when?

I don't know when(is it if or something else?) she will come.

Ant_222, объясни хоть ты по-русски :-)

Selecter

Synonyms

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