Islam:veiling women!

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Kabayan

#371420 Mon, 28 May 07 05:10 AM

Jane Greco wrote :

What I am really concerned about is that those girls,who are wearing veils are usually end up cleaning apartments or cooking in the small family cafes.

None of them do attend university, or work in the bank,school etc,as the country's law does not allow one to walk in a govermental building wearing a veil,or even a headscarf.

Women are not allwed to wear what they want to wear. It seems that extrimism can occurs on both pro-veiling or anti-veiling sides. That is soooooo sad, isn't it ?

My wife has already wore veil since the first time we met. I can say that it was a love at first sight. To be frankly, I preferred a girl who wear less outfit than one who wear veil, but I can't resist my love to a girl who wore veil ( my wife to be ). I accept her the way she is. I have no right to force her to put off her veil, right ?

We got married after she got a post graduate diploma, and she runs her own consultant office now. Fortunately, she is not living in a country who does not allow veiled women to walk in a governmental building.

Kabayan

Joined on Tue, Jan 3 2006

Indonesia

Full Member (201)

Happy all the time !

Universities

Sara Straight & Tall

#371457 Mon, 28 May 07 06:24 AM

You are utterly and absolutely right, Kabayan.

Sara Straight &...

Joined on Thu, May 3 2007

Galicia,Spain

Junior Member (71)

A dog is prose. A cat is poetry.

Forbes

#378653 Tue, 12 Jun 07 08:12 PM

What depresses me is that so many people, after the most careful deliberation and soul-searching, come to convince themselves of the truth of the doctrines they were taught as children and the value of the customs they were brought up with.

Forbes

Joined on Thu, Jun 16 2005

Regular Member (837)

Stannum

#378685 Tue, 12 Jun 07 09:31 PM

Forbes wrote:
What depresses me is that so many people, after the most careful deliberation and soul-searching, come to convince themselves of the truth of the doctrines they were taught as children and the value of the customs they were brought up with.

With any due respect I must challenge your hysteron proteron opinion.

Forbes,

Where is there even one jot of evidence that the believer of any doctrine has ever indulged in careful deliberation and soul searching?

One single line of writing will do to support your contention.

To support my contention I will start with a quote from a long haired bloke with sandles and a bad attitude to authority who faked his own death and hit the toe in the most spectular manner.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanliness.

Stannum

Joined on Fri, Oct 28 2005

Melbourne Australia

Regular Member (526)

Forbes

#378788 Wed, 13 Jun 07 01:01 AM

With equal respect, Stannum, I fear you have failed to detect the irony in my post.

I cannot say for certain, since I do not know the minds of other people, but I suspect that the average man or woman in the street does not question his or her beliefs too closely. There are though, I feel sure, those who have set out on a quest to find out what they believe only to discover that they believe what they have always believed.

My post was aimed at those, I cannot say if it is in this thread or another or on a different site, who have expressly stated that have have thought about whether or not to wear the veil (they must naturally live in countries where they have a choice) and come to the conclusion that it is what they really want to do.

My post was another way of pointing out, as I have said on this site only to annoy some, that for most people their religion is the one they were born into.

Forbes

Irony

Stannum

#378811 Wed, 13 Jun 07 01:36 AM

Forbes wrote:
With equal respect, Stannum, I fear you have failed to detect the irony in my post.

I was only joking is about equal with 'the cat ate my homework'. I saw and see no ironic language nor construction in your referenced post but of course I take your word for it and I will be more attentive to your little jokes on such subjects in future.

Thank you for your most instructive contributions.

Stannum

Constructions, Jokes, Irony

Forbes

#378975 Wed, 13 Jun 07 11:24 AM

Would this have been better?

Whilst I have no empirical evidence to support the contention, it is my belief that those who have expressly stated that they have engaged in a rigorous examination of the religious doctrines they were taught as children and found them to be satisfactory have, in fact, engaged in an exercise of self-deception. Notwithstanding that my belief in this regard may be erroneous, and indeed the result of me deceiving myself, I find this depressing because it seems to me prove how strong the pernicious influence of religion is even on the noblest of minds.

It could perhaps do with a little polishing, but I think I have eliminated the irony.

Forbes

Regards, Irony

Stannum

#379026 Wed, 13 Jun 07 01:32 PM

Forbes wrote:
What depresses me is that so many people, after the most careful deliberation and soul-searching, come to convince themselves of the truth of the doctrines they were taught as children and the value of the customs they were brought up with.

Forbes wrote:
Would this have been better?

Whilst I have no empirical evidence to support the contention, it is my belief that those who have expressly stated that they have engaged in a rigorous examination of the religious doctrines they were taught as children and found them to be satisfactory have, in fact, engaged in an exercise of self-deception. Notwithstanding that my belief in this regard may be erroneous, and indeed the result of me deceiving myself, I find this depressing because it seems to me prove how strong the pernicious influence of religion is even on the noblest of minds.

It could perhaps do with a little polishing, but I think I have eliminated the irony.

expressly stated that they have

There's the rub. There is almost certainly a world of supernatural difference between claiming to have engaged in the most careful deliberation and soul-searching and having engaged in the most careful deliberation and soul-searching. The devil is indeed in the detail.

I suspect us to be of like minds on some subjects.

Maybe I could agree with you if you amended the final phrase to replace is with can be or even may be as I do not accept that religious influence is always pernicious or that the pernicious influence of religion always effects minds noble or otherwise or indeed that an effect that can be accurately referred to as being of a religious nature can be truely pernicious.

The only absolute statement that I I am comfortable with is that I should question all absolute statements.

Stannum

Difference between, Regards, Irony

Sara Straight & Tall

#379154 Wed, 13 Jun 07 05:53 PM

Forbes wrote:

Notwithstanding that my belief in this regard may be erroneous, and indeed the result of me deceiving myself, I find this depressing because it seems to me prove how strong the pernicious influence of religion is even on the noblest of minds.

Excuse me, but, what is the pernicious influence of:

1- Murder is forbidden

2- Theft is forbidden

3- Sexual inmorality is forbidden

4- Eating flesh from a living animal is forbidden

5- Worship of idols is forbidden

6- Blaspheming is forbidden

7- Society must establish a fair system of justice to administer law with honesty.

Aren't you mixing up religion with fundamentalism?