"I've been knowing him for years"?

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Anonymous

#572474 Thu, 02 Oct 08 12:45 PM

2CalifJim:
What about 700 examples of "been knowing"? ;)

2Goodman:
The verb "to know" works perfectly well with the Perfect Continuous (Progressive) Tense. Yes, it is FORBIDDEN to be used in this tense, but that doesn't mean it does not work. It is not argued that the rule that forbids using the stative verbs in the Perfect Continuous, exists. What is argued is the rule itself. The Perfect Continuous is the most "continuous" of tenses. It is a continuity itself. So, why forbid the verbs which definitely are of durative character, from using them in a durative tense?

<< I started to know it two years ago...>> by the way, this looks completely grammatical but sounded really strange!
It's because the phrase itself is strange. It was used to show that the verb "to know" can be durative. If you can start doing something, then keep on doing it for some period of time, then quit doing it, that means that the action is durative. I definitely can start to know something (for example, "to know how to do the scuba-diving"), then keep on knowing it for some time, then forget it. That would mean that my "knowing" was durative. The same can be said about other stative verbs as well.

At the same time, when you use the Present Perfect to express the durative action which still lasts at the moment of speaking ("I have known him for two years¨), you undermine the logical essence of the Present Perfect as a tense, which represents a finished action (hence past, not present), which is not durative, neither lasting (compare: "I have bought a car", "She has done it", "Mel Gibson has produced another movie", etc.).

Che

(This thing doesn't want to register me for some reason).

Anonymous

Verbs, Tenses, Stative Verbs, Present Perfect

Goodman

#572544 Thu, 02 Oct 08 04:36 PM

Anon,

We will find the most awkward English and the best writing from Google. (:)) Smile
By the way you articulated, you are pretty logical, but if I may say so, your logic is a little skewed. (st) Storm

(for example, "to know how to do the scuba-diving- then keep on knowing it for some time, then forget it. That would mean that my "knowing" was durative. The same can be said about other stative verbs as well. "),
This example won’t fly even if with wings! You need a subject to complete the idea. i.e. “ I want to know how to scuba-dive”. “To know” is correctly used as infinitive. I am completely amazed with your explanation. If you know how to swim, you can’t forget it.

Once a toddler knows how to walk, he will know how to walk for life. But no one will say” he has been knowing how to walk all his life”. So we can’t categorize it as “durative” in my opinion.

I think your argument is to favor the use of “know” in continuous progressive form. However, your example failed to support that. CJ has expressed how he saw the use of progressive form with the verb “know”. Sorry to disagree.

Goodman

Joined on Mon, Nov 7 2005

Calif. USA

Senior Member (3,247)

The name says it all!

Verbs, Stative Verbs

CalifJim

#572842 Fri, 03 Oct 08 07:33 PM

Anonymous
2CalifJim:
What about 700 examples of "been knowing"? ;)

I'm not about to catalog 700 examples for you. Smile

You'll have to research the usage yourself on this one, but it's probably the same sort of distribution found for the 23 I researched. But 700 is a minuscule number of hits for a Google search.

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (17,763)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Numbers

Goodman

#572851 Fri, 03 Oct 08 07:47 PM

Anon,

If you still like to carry on a meaningful discussion, this forum will be glad to entertain you. If you are turned off because of the forum’s disagreeing with you, we are sorry that you are protecting in silence with a double post to insist on your argument. (;)) Wink

Goodman

CalifJim

#572857 Fri, 03 Oct 08 07:59 PM

I think the user is more turned off by the difficulty of registering. Wink

Sometimes double posts come out unintentionally when a user is first attempting to work with the system.

CalifJim

Anonymous

#572879 Fri, 03 Oct 08 08:46 PM

Goodman:

OK, if you didn't like the scuba diving example, here is another one: "I knew the poem by heart from the moment I had learnt it in my third grade till the moment I finished school. After that I forgot it. I DON'T KNOW THIS POEM BY HEART ANYMORE".

Actually, "to forget" means "to stop knowing", i.e.: "I forgot the password = I don't know it anymore = I stopped knowing it". If you can stop doing something, it means that the action had been durative. So, "knowing" is durative.

Not sure about MY logic, but what seems skewed indeed is the way the things are posted on the forum. In my previous message the correct number of examples of "been knowing" was 70 000. But after it had been posted, it turned into 700! Extremely amazing!

Also, Google=usage. Awkward, brilliant, stupid, smart... That's the way people use the language over the world.

Anonymous

Numbers

Goodman

#572926 Fri, 03 Oct 08 11:39 PM

Anon,

I wish there is a name I can address to. The reason I said your logic is “ a little skewed” is just because how you formed your logic and progressed with it.

: "I knew the poem by heart from the moment I had learnt it in my third grade till the moment I finished school.
After that I forgot it. I DON'T KNOW THIS POEM BY HEART ANYMORE".

If you say “I forgot I have a 10 o’clock meeting” Can you equate this to “I don’t know I have a meeting at 10 o’clock ? No!

If you forgot to turn in your project yesterday which was assigned to you, it does not mean you don’t know it’s due.
You can’t tell your boss “I forgot about it conveniently because you forgot to know” can you?

If you forget something, you just temporarily can’t remember, but not because you don’t know.

We can’t not change the outcome to fit the title of a book!

, "to forget" means "to stop knowing", i.e.: "I forgot the password = I don't know it anymore = I stopped knowing it"

If you feel this equation works for you. I hope you will find happiness using it!

I think native speakers as well as those with good depth in the English language will find “I stopped know it” pretty a puzzling statement.

Not sure about MY logic, but what seems skewed indeed is the way the things are posted on the forum. Oh! How so? Please elaborate.

In my previous message the correct number of examples of "been knowing" was 70 000. But after it had been posted, it
turned into 700! Extremely amazing!

Are you suggesting somehow someone responding to your post had the power to change the Google search results?

Also, Google=usage. Awkward, brilliant, stupid, smart... That's the way people use the language over the world.

I won't comment further on that!

Goodman

Numbers

Avangi

#572984 Sat, 04 Oct 08 04:42 AM

Goodman
,Are you suggesting somehow someone responding to your post had the power to change the Google search results?

Also, Google=usage. Awkward, brilliant, stupid, smart... That's the way people use the language over the world.

Anon has successfully crossed the pons asinorum of Google usage. I salute him on that. - A.