Guest:
I wonder if "the Jones' house" and "the Jones's house" are the same. Is there a case of genitive where "s" must be added to a noun ending in "s" ? I appreciate your help.
It's the same, and Jones's is preferred. This is one such case; another is boss's.
Veteran Member92,083
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Dear Guest,

It is «to keep up with the Joneses». So Jones' and Jones's are strange to me.

Perhaps you may say «the Joneses' house».

Best wishes Emotion: smile
Goldmund
Regular Member581
Guest:
thank you, people.
I learned the rule at high school that nouns ending in -s is not followed by another -s in the genitive form, but in real life, I have seen forms contrary to the rule, such as Jones'. Has the rule collapsed? There is still a small part of the rule remaining untouched in my last question: plural nouns ending in -s. Does this rule apply to this group of nouns? Thank you for your help.
Has the rule collapsed?


I don't think it was never erected. If you look through various grammar texts-- or google 'possessive nouns' (here's a [url="http://grammar.uoregon.edu/case/possnouns.html "]GOOD SITE[/url]-- you'll find strict rules and more malleable ones. I still stick with Jesus', but let clarity and spareness rule me otherwise.
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Anonymous:
Goldmund - I think you are getting confused about what the question was.
They were asking about possessive esses (to use phonetics in order to avoid use of apostrophes!) whereas "Keeping up with the Joneses" is plural.

As in Dr Jones's pen, or Dr Jones' pen, rather than the Joneses - this was brought up later in the thread.


Dear sir,

Here is the question:

«I wonder if "the Jones' house" and "the Jones's house" are the same.»

We do not use the definite article if there is only one Jones. We say «Mr Jones's house» or «Dr Jones's house».

The house in the question is therefore not «the house of the Jones» but «the house of the Joneses».

But it is very kind of you to help me. Emotion: smile

Warmest regards, Emotion: smile

Goldmund
Anonymous:
Sorry, I beg to disagree.We have to bear in mind the concept of singular and plural nouns when deciding on the correct usage of the apostrophe with or without "s". Obviously, we don´t say: "I´m going to see the Jones" (when meaning the family), but "the Joneses". Therefore, in correct English, we would have to write "the Joneses´ house (NO apostrophe "s" needed after a plural noun ending in S. I hope this clears matters up.
A.A. Long (English teacher and Cambridge English speaking examiner).
Anonymous:
What if the last name has several syllables? Such as the Frederickses' house. Is that correct?
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