What's the last movie you've seen?

Ant_222 wrote:

Hoa Thai: «However, the movie's title is ever-lasting.» But the action of watching it is not. The verb "see" expresses this action.

Dear Ant,

As you said, because the seeing action is not, the speaker can use 'saw' for specific or 'have seen' for non-specific time indication.

When I hear "What is the movie?" or "What was the movie?", my instinct tells me that the asker wants to know the title (an ever-lasting piece of information).

Let's take another example. "Have you ever seen your great-grandmother? by the way, what is/was her name?" In that same context, I told myself all four are okay.  But of course, I can see other people's argument too.

Take care,
Hoa Thai

Kooyeen wrote:

What's the last movie you've seen? What's the last movie you saw? What was the last movie you've seen? What was the last movie you saw?

Hi Kooyeen

Would you feel the same confusion if the word 'last' were replaced by 'most recent' in your sentences? 

Ant_222 wrote:

Hoa Thai: «When I hear "What is the movie?" or "What was the movie?", my instinct tells me that the asker wants to know the title (an ever-lasting piece of information).» (What was the last movie you saw) Yes, but "was" implies a past moment (that of whatching the movie), and Present Perfect ("have seen") contradicts with it. In this case a Present Perfect clause cannot be subordinated to a Past Simple clause. Using Present Perfect here is as incorrect as in «What have you been doing yesterday?» «I can see other people's argument too.» Seeing but not accepting?

Hi Ant,

I gave an example earlier to share my thought and please allow me to go over it again.

1. “Have you ever seen your great grandmother? By the way, what is her name?”

 Present perfect goes with simple present – the great grandmother is known to be alive and well.

2. “Have you ever seen your great grandmother? By the way, what was her name?

Present perfect goes with simple past – the great grandmother is known to pass away 20 years ago.

That is the best I can explain why I think the way I do. You believe both verbs could be simple past – which I also agree (You can go ahead and replace the present perfect tense in the two sentences above with simple past and you got what you think is right).

If I cannot articulate my delivery, I accept my own weakness. However, I would suggest that you keep believing in yourself and allow me to trust my own opinion. I don’t think you join the forum in order to win (or lose) - or do you?

Best wishes,
Hoa Thai

Hi all,

Here is my observations:

 

Ant222 said:

 Using Present Perfect here is as incorrect as in «What have you been doing yesterday?» 

 

My comment:

“Yesterday” is a direct time reference constructed into the same sentence in this case which violates rule #1 of present perfect tense.  I think most everyone agrees. However, The key word is “direct”, which brings the discussion to Thai’s comment.

1. “Have you ever seen your great grandmother? By the way, what is her name?” -----This is fine

 Present perfect goes with simple present – the great grandmother is known to be alive and well.

2. “Have you ever seen your great grandmother? By the way, what was her name?

My comment:

In this mixed context, there are two time sensitive questions going on here. The latter is coincidental by design and is not part of the construct of the main sentence.

In this case, this mixed-tense construction seems reasonably acceptable in my opinion.

 

We are not here to win or lose, as Thai had said. That said, I think most of us still try to convince or win over the opposing opinions regardless how unknowingly invalid we are in our arguments. The problem is, we all believe what we know is correct. Otherwise, we won’t embarrass ourselves by posting our thoughts here. I was proven wrong a few times, and learned a few things as a result. In this case, I think both arguments are reasonably acceptable.