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Latest post Mon, Jan 1 2007 3:46 PM by Inchoateknowledge. 8 replies.
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Inchoateknowledge  +  309203 Sun, 31 Dec 06 06:16 PM

Hello

I have not seen that (object of the verb, not in modifier sense here) many (people) crowded (at the entrance)

many can be used in the sense of many people:

http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?query=%22considered+by+many+to%22&srchst=nyt

Crowd: "To congregate in a restricted area; throng: The children crowded around the TV. "

I have not seen that (many crowded at the entrance).

Question:

c- I haven't seen that..................crowded.

a) many                  b) much

why is a) not correct

Thanks

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Fantasy  +  309214 Sun, 31 Dec 06 07:33 PM
 Inchoateknowledge wrote:

Hello

I have not seen that (object of the verb, not in modifier sense here) many (people) crowded (at the entrance)

I am afraid that you misunderstood the function and meaning of 'that' here.

'that' is an adverb in this context.

that, adverb   [from Longman Dictionary of Contemorary English]

[+ adjective/adverb]
1
spoken used to say how big, how much etc, especially when you are showing the size, amount etc with your hands
It was quite a large fish - about that long. He missed hitting the car in front by that much.
2
[usually in negatives] spoken as much as in the present situation or as much as has been stated
I'm sorry, I hadn't realized the situation was that bad. No one expected it to cost that much. The advanced exam is more difficult, but not many students progress that far.

Joined on Sat, Dec 23 2006
New Member 09
Inchoateknowledge  +  309217 Sun, 31 Dec 06 07:53 PM

Thanks for the answer

to see something

I have not seen that many (many = noun here) crowded at the entrance.

that is definitely not an adverb in the above sentence.

"many: a large or considerable number of persons or things"

that can be in adverb function when 'many' is an adjective, but as I have said, in this sentence many means 'many people'.

An adverb cannot modify a noun.

HNY

Fantasy  +  309219 Sun, 31 Dec 06 08:07 PM

I (subject) + have not seen (verb) + that many people (object) crowded (past participle) at the entrance.

Perhaps, you are not familiar with the above construction.

 

Inchoateknowledge  +  309220 Sun, 31 Dec 06 08:09 PM
 Fantasy wrote:

I (subject) + have not seen (verb) + that many people (object) crowded (past participle) at the entrance.

Perhaps, you are not familiar with the above construction.

and "at the entrance" = locative adjunct

Read my previous post carefully again.

Fantasy  +  309221 Sun, 31 Dec 06 08:20 PM

Well, I am new here and began to reply to your question by mistake.

Now, I see why other poople do not reply to your post.

My advice to you is this: put on listening ears. Don't be so argumentative if you want to have other people help you.

You are not going to hear from me again.

Inchoateknowledge, 2 yr 328 days ago

Happy new year

Anonymous, 2 yr 327 days ago

I agree with Fantasy. Below are my references.

Oxford Advanced:

"That 

(...)

adverb

1 used when saying how much or showing how long, big, etc. sth is with your hands: I can’t walk that far (= as far as that). -  It’s about that long.

2 not (all) ~ not very, or not as much as has been said: It isn’t all that cold. - There aren’t that many people here.

3 (BrE, informal) used to emphasize how much: I was that scared I didn’t know what to do. "

Cambridge:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=82269&dict=CALD

Inchoateknowledge  +  309419 Mon, 01 Jan 07 03:46 PM
 Anonymous wrote:

I agree with Fantasy. Below are my references.

Oxford Advanced:

"That 

(...)

adverb

1 used when saying how much or showing how long, big, etc. sth is with your hands: I can’t walk that far (= as far as that). -  It’s about that long.

2 not (all) ~ not very, or not as much as has been said: It isn’t all that cold. - There aren’t that many people here.

3 (BrE, informal) used to emphasize how much: I was that scared I didn’t know what to do. "

Cambridge:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=82269&dict=CALD



Hello Fantasy

that -- conjunction, introduces the noun clause which is the object of the verb: have seen
that in the sentence is not this that:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=82269&dict=CALD
but this:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=82267&dict=CALD


I have not seen (that many crowded at the entrance)


Let me parse this sentence for you in two possible ways:

I -- subject

have seen -- verb

not -- adverb

that many crowded at the entrance -- noun clause, object of the verb: have seen.

at the entrance -- prep phrase and a locative adverbial phrase.

Another interpretation:

I have not seen (that many)  crowded at the entrance

I -- subject

have seen -- verb

not -- adverb

that many -- object, that is a determiner which modifies many ((noun) a large or considerable number of persons or things.)

An adverb does never modify a noun.

crowded -- postmodify the object and is a participle (past participle in form, but simply a participle in function)

at the entrance -- adverbial phrase

What I was trying to say in my previous posts and you did not understand was that I meant the sentence with the former interpretation, not the latter.

If you still do not understand me, never mind.
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