Charles Riggs    962709 Mon, 19 Jul 04 07:56 AM In the news, of course, is: "The Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has called for all Jews living in France to leave and move to Israel after a rise in anti-Semitism. Mr Sharon said he made the call to all Jews but said those in France should move 'immediately'." Once there they'll have the opportunity to learn how to hate Muslims properly, perhaps even learn to applaud when the homes of the wives and children of suspected Palestinian rebels are leveled to the ground by Israeli troops, egged on by Mr Sharon's dictatorial government. There, unlike in France where peace is given a chance, they'll learn to become hardened to the daily maiming and killing of people on both sides of the conflict, secure in the knowledge the US Congress and Bush's government will back to the hilt anything the government of their newly-adopted country does. Charles Riggs Charles Riggs Marriage, Relationships

	Athel Cornish-Bowden    963403 Tue, 20 Jul 04 09:21 AM "In the news, of course, is: "The Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has called for all Jews living in France to leave and move to Israel after a rise in anti-Semitism. Mr Sharon said he made the call to all Jews but said those in France should move 'immediately'." Once there they'll have the opportunity to learn how to hate Muslims properly, perhaps even learn to applaud when the homes of the wives and children of suspected Palestinian rebels are leveled to the ground by Israeli troops, egged on by Mr Sharon's dictatorial government. There, unlike in France where peace is given a chance, they'll learn to become hardened to the daily maiming and killing of people on both sides of the conflict, secure in the knowledge the US Congress and Bush's government will back to the hilt anything the government of their newly-adopted country does." And your English-usage point is ... ? Actually, although no admirer of Mr Sharon, and someone who lives in France and has no desire to live anywhere else, I think that the French authorities have chosen one of the least objectionable things that Mr Sharon has said to make a big fuss about. All he has done in this instance is to express what has always been the publicly stated policy of the Zionist movement. athel Athel Cornish-Bowden http://bip.cnrs-mrs.fr/bip10/homepage.htm Athel Cornish-Bowden Marriage, Relationships

	Mike Lyle    963815 Tue, 20 Jul 04 10:51 PM "In the news, of course, is: "The Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has called for all Jews living in France to leave and move to Israel after a rise in anti-Semitism. Mr Sharon said he made the call to all Jews but said those in France should move 'immediately'." Once there they'll have the opportunity to learn how to hate Muslims properly, perhaps even learn to applaud when the homes of the wives and children of suspected Palestinian rebels are leveled to the ground by Israeli troops, egged on by Mr Sharon's dictatorial government. There, unlike in France where peace is given a chance, they'll learn to become hardened to the daily maiming and killing of people on both sides of the conflict, secure in the knowledge the US Congress and Bush's government will back to the hilt anything the government of their newly-adopted country does." "And your English-usage point is ... ? Actually, although no admirer of Mr Sharon, and someone who lives in France ... has done in this instance is to express what has always been the publicly stated policy of the Zionist movement." Never mind English usage: as you surely know, this is a club anybody on earth or anywhere else is welcome to join, and after a brief acceptance period to prove on-topic good will may sound off every now and then on an off-topic matter that occurs to them. If they overdo it, people get snakey; otherwise, it's just language-minded mates rapping over a dry sherry about what comes into their minds. If the Zionist movement had as stated policy an insistence on the movement of every Jew everywhere in the world to Israel, it would command no respect whatever: in fact, it would be an outrage. The concept of an inviolable Jewish national home doesn't in real-world terms imply any such thing. If French Jews are either French or Jewish, let alone both, they'll tell him to stuff his stupid destructive idea where he spoke it from. If the French Government is French, it will tell him the same sort of thing, plus: "French citizens are French citizens, and we don't need any electorally-desperate quasi-Fascist to tell us we can't protect them." I don't want to think about Vichy and all that ***: I assume French administrators have grown up since then. If they haven't, we're all doomed anyway. Mike. Mike Lyle Marriage, Relationships, Friendships, Usages

	Robert Lieblich    963880 Wed, 21 Jul 04 01:43 AM ( ... ; "him" is Ariel Sharon; the "idea" is that French Jews should move to Israel for their safety) "If French Jews are either French or Jewish, let alone both, they'll tell him to stuff his stupid destructive idea ... and all that ***: I assume French administrators have grown up since then. If they haven't, we're all doomed anyway." Israel has long sought to have all Jews in the world "make Aliyah" (immigrate to Israel). Where they'll put them all I have no idea. And if the Americans can't maintain their incomes, where will the billions in private charity come from? But from what I read in the papers, there is a difference in the extent of overt anti-semitism between the US and France. So, yes, I think Sharon's message is that French Jews may soon need to seek asylum in Israel, much as did the Jews of Morocco and Syria and Ethiopia and lots of other countries where Jews have found themselves unwelcome. I don't blame French officials for resenting the implication. But if there is truth in the stories I've heard about what is being done to Jews in France, and about the tepidness of official and unofficial reaction, Sharon likely has a point. Don't be too quick just yet to conclude that French administrators have reached adulthood. I repeat that I am not sufficiently knowledgeable of either the extent of French anti-semitism or the degree to which the authorities condone it to take a position on how out of line Sharon was (if at all). But you'll notice that he hasn't invited American Jews to take refuge in Israel from their fellow citizens. Mass murder aside, the world seems to be running out of issues on which it's easy to decide which side to take. Bob Lieblich In his usual befuddled condition Robert Lieblich United States, American

	Athel Cornish-Bowden    963972 Wed, 21 Jul 04 08:46 AM "Actually, although no admirer of Mr Sharon, and someone who ... always been the publicly stated policy of the Zionist movement." "If the Zionist movement had as stated policy an insistence on the movement of every Jew everywhere in ... an outrage. The concept of an inviolable Jewish national home doesn't in real-world terms imply any such thing." Of course. But after all the half-hearted or non-existent protests that the French and other governments have made over all the other much worse things that Mr Sharon has said and done, does it really makes sense to make such a fuss about this one? OK, this directly affects the French government, but the wanton and large-scale destruction of the fruits of European Union investment in Palestine also does so, but any protests that the EU governments may have made about that have been sufficiently discreet to go unreported in the press. "If French Jews are either French or Jewish, let alone both, they'll tell him to stuff his stupid destructive idea where he spoke it from." His speech has had one good effect, as it has called the bluff of some of the increasingly vociferous people who have been greatly exaggerating the level of anti-Jewish activity in France. athel Athel Cornish-Bowden http://bip.cnrs-mrs.fr/bip10/homepage.htm Athel Cornish-Bowden Speaking, Speeches, Activities

	Mike Lyle    964049 Wed, 21 Jul 04 12:40 PM "( ... ; "him" is Ariel Sharon; the "idea" is that French Jews should move to Israel for their safety)" "If French Jews are either French or Jewish, let alone both, they'll tell him to stuff his stupid destructive idea where he spoke it from." "Israel has long sought to have all Jews in the world "make Aliyah" (immigrate to Israel). Where they'll put them all I have no idea." Gosh! I didn't realize that: a crackpot and frightening idea, if I may be frank. Mike. Mike Lyle

	Charles Riggs    964391 Thu, 22 Jul 04 07:29 AM "( ... ; "him" is Ariel Sharon; the "idea" is that French Jews should move to Israel for their safety)" "Israel has long sought to have all Jews in the world "make Aliyah" (immigrate to Israel). Where they'll put them all I have no idea." "Gosh! I didn't realize that: a crackpot and frightening idea, if I may be frank." Are you sure you want to be him? Charles Riggs Charles Riggs

	Mike Lyle    964459 Thu, 22 Jul 04 11:32 AM "if I may be frank." "Are you sure you want to be him?" As long as he's having a good time and I can change back whenever I want. Mike. Mike Lyle

	Charles Riggs    965059 Fri, 23 Jul 04 11:08 AM "Are you sure you want to be him?" "As long as he's having a good time and I can change back whenever I want." I knew you'd have a most reasonable answer, Mike. Charles Riggs Charles Riggs