Here they are! They have been missing...

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CalifJim

#409098 Sat, 25 Aug 07 04:24 AM

when you tell someone else, I think you can no longer say ... ... "Bill, I finally found my glasses, they've been lying on the floor".

That's right. found establishes a past point of view, and it's jarring to hear the present point of view suddenly emerge with they've. But you can keep it consistent by using the following.

Bill, I've [finally / just] found my glasses; they've been lying on the floor.

I don't find it as jarring to go in the reverse direction:

Bill, I've just found my glasses; they were lying on the floor.

CJ

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (17,791)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Ant_222

#409258 Sat, 25 Aug 07 01:51 PM

Helo, Kooyeen.

«I think... 30 seconds is too little to trigger a past perfect... well, generally speaking. In this case I wouldn't use the a past perfect after 30 seconds, maybe I could (if I wanted) after one or two hours. In other cases I could not use it until some days are passed, for example, but notice that I said I'm not still sure how to use past perfects correctly, so this is just what I think I'd do.»

In that situation with Past Simple used to report your having found the glasses, the Past Perfect Progressive is triggered not by how long before the moment of speech the action happened but by that that this action is succeeded by another action, both lying in the past.

Using "They've been lying..." makes an impression as if it is an "up-to-now" action, which sounds wrong after Past Simple where you should somehow express an "up-to-the-moment-you-found-them" action, if you allow me to use such an adjective.

But, yes, I wasn't right about the "They had been under the carpet" alternative. It is wrong. And it is correct to say: "I found my glasses, they were...", as you suggested!

So, Present Perfect Progressive and Past Simple both work after "I found my glasses". And Past Perfect doesn't.

Ant_222

Joined on Sun, May 21 2006

Podolsk, Russia

Contributing Member (1,584)

Kooyeen

#409337 Sat, 25 Aug 07 07:19 PM

Thanks for the answers.

But this is kind of confusing! Hmm, it seems the activity doesn't need to influence the present time in anyway. You could say it has to be connected with it one way or another, but "one way or another" is too generic...
I checked my other threads about the present perfect continuous, and they are incomplete, so maybe that's why I still don't understand. It's going to be a mess... maybe I'll post something else later.

Anyway, it seems everyone agrees on the fact that the present perfect continuous implies that the action is still ongoing or the whole situation has not come to an end. Unless it's clear from the context, and there's a strong connection with "now" (usually a "result"). But it seems you accepted that example about the search on the net, and there's no connection with the present, is there?

See you later, maybe Smile [:)]

Kooyeen

Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005

Italy

Senior Member (4,073)

If you don't have a sense of humor already, it's about time you buy one.

Present Perfect

Ant_222

#409389 Sat, 25 Aug 07 11:19 PM

«You search the net for some info from 9 am to 11 am, then you turn your pc off and 15 minutes later you tell your friend... "Sorry, I didn't find anything on the net. I've been searching for two hours"»

I'd say "I had been searching" and your variant seems downright incorect to me.

«You search the net for some info from 9 am to 11 am, then you turn your pc off and 15 minutes later you tell your friend... "I found what we need. I've been searching for two hours"... »

Again, my opinion is:

1. "I have found what we need. I have been..."
2. "I found..., I had been"

The only difference in the examples is that in one you found the desired stuff and in the other didn't. Both actions (finding and not finding) are complete past actions, so I see no difference from the grammar viewpoint.

Ant_222

Grammar

Bokeh

#409393 Sat, 25 Aug 07 11:30 PM

I'd say:
1, I searched for two hours but [didn't find/haven't found] anything.
2, I searched for two hours and [found/have found] what we were looking for.

Bokeh

Joined on Sun, Mar 18 2007

Spain

Regular Member (506)

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