Most fair or fairest?

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Anonymous

#380574 Sun, 17 Jun 07 08:00 AM

If my sentence is:

I think that would be [fairest / most fair].

Which one is right?

Thanks so much!
Catalina

Anonymous

Yoong Liat

#380592 Sun, 17 Jun 07 10:31 AM

Anonymous wrote:
If my sentence is:

I think that would be [fairest / most fair].

Which one is right?

Thanks so much!
Catalina

fairest

Yoong Liat

Joined on Mon, Sep 4 2006

Singapore

Veteran Member (6,099)

Yoong Liat

Cool Breeze

#380595 Sun, 17 Jun 07 10:33 AM

It depends. English is sometimes a little inexact, but if you want to say "I think that would be very fair", you should opt for

I think that would be most fair.

Most fair is an absolute superlative. If you want comparison with other possibilities, you might say:

I think that would be fairest. (= fairer than anything else)

You may ask why there is no article (the) before fairest. It is sometimes omitted, especially after forms of be.

CB

Cool Breeze

Joined on Fri, Apr 7 2006

Helsinki, Finland

Senior Member (3,006)

The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.- Mark Twain

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Anonymous

#380614 Sun, 17 Jun 07 12:13 PM

Cool Breeze wrote:
It depends. English is sometimes a little inexact, but if you want to say "I think that would be very fair", you should opt for

Hi, CB, how would you deal with a situation where you are quoting but not quoting someone said but rather to make a point like yours "I think that would be very fair," would you place a period since the sentence is a full sentence?

I think that would be most fair.

I have difficulty with writing "most something" and "the most something", whether that something maybe an ajective or noun. In a comparative statement, I think, the "the most" structure is more often used but sometimes, when comparisions are not made, "most" could do the job, especially when you meant to say "more the others," I think "most fair" could be sort of an idiomatic absolute superative, but do you some tips to distinguish properly?

eg,

1. What aspect of your life do you place most importance (the most importance??) on?

2. He is most dependable (the most dependable??) when he is given some level of freedom to do what he want.

Here, for sentence 2, I think, 'most dependable' is suitable, without any other factors to think otherwise, but when you are make a comparision, I think, 'the most dependable' is also appropriate.

Sorry to ask the questions that are not directly related but I felt there were a lot of similarities in terms of their content.

most fair is an absolute superlative. If you want comparison with other possibilities, you might say:

I think that would be fairest. (= fairer than anything else)

You may ask why there is no article (the) before fairest. It is sometimes omitted, especially after forms of be.

CB

Anonymous

Articles, Nouns, Quoting

Cool Breeze

#380689 Sun, 17 Jun 07 02:49 PM

I'm not particularly meticulous about punctuation. If I understood you correctly, you are asking whether there should be a period after fair in my sentence? I didn't use one, someone else might.

The absolute superlative is one of the least fixed structures in English; there are cases in which it is identical with the relative superlative. It is quite amazing that my native language has always helped me with this point of grammar - amazing because Finnish isn't even an Indo-European language! Russian and English are related, Finnish and English are not! Nevertheless, in real-life situations people seem to behave and speak more or less the same everywhere. As absolute superlatives are always remarkably different from relative superlatives in Finnish, I never have trouble as to when an absolute superlative should be used in English. I am sometimes surprised at the form it takes, though.

Examples of absolute superlatives in English:

The book is most interesting. (= very interesting)
This is a most interesting book. (= very interesting)

Easy so far. You just use most instead of very.

I'll do it with the greatest pleasure. (Quite peculiar. The same as the relative superlative would be!)
You have been most kind. (= very kind) Really odd! Kind is a short adjective and the superlative is normally the kindest. Why don't they say analogously with most kind: I'll do it with most great pleasure?

As to your sentences:
1. Clearly the most importance because most + a noun would mean more than 50 percent:
Most cats like milk.
He took most of my money.

2. He is (at his) most dependable when he is given some freedom to do what he wants.
Not: the most dependable because we are not comparing him with other people. We are comparing him with himself. In the same way:

The lake is (at its) deepest here. (= The deepest point of the lake is here.)
But: This is the deepest lake. (= deeper than any other lake)

Again, Finnish helps me - or I should say helped me as a schoolboy - because a Finn will never confuse the two expressions in his language. They are so different: (at its) deepest = syvimmillään; the deepest = syvin.

Cheers
CB

Cool Breeze

Grammar, Nouns, Expressions, Punctuation

New2grammar

#380739 Sun, 17 Jun 07 05:51 PM

Cool Breeze, I find this post of yours to be most interesting. Smile [:)] However, I haven't fully grab the idea of relative versus absolute superlatives.

Are you saying that when the definite article 'the' is dropped, the relative superlative becomes the absolute superlative. For example,

She is the smartest girl in her class. => relative because she is compared to her classmates.

She was smartest when she was 5 years old. => absolute. no comparison.

This car is fastest when turbo charged. => absolute

This car is the fastest compared to others in its category.=>relative

Does this rule work all the time? I don't quite understand your explanation as quoted below, I think you are trying to explain some exceptions to the rule:

I'll do it with the greatest pleasure. (Quite peculiar. The same as the relative superlative would be!)
You have been most kind. (= very kind) Really odd! Kind is a short adjective and the superlative is normally the kindest. Why don't they say analogously with most kind: I'll do it with most great pleasure?

Thank in advance!

New2grammar

Joined on Tue, Nov 21 2006

Veteran Member (7,676)

Who wants to go sailing around the world with me?

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Bokeh

#380748 Sun, 17 Jun 07 06:08 PM

Anonymous wrote:
I think that would be [fairest / most fair].

Which one is right?

Hi Catalina,

As a general rule, when you want to make a comparative use "-er" and "-est" if the word has only one syllable, otherwise use "more" and "most".

Bokeh

Joined on Sun, Mar 18 2007

Spain

Regular Member (506)

Cool Breeze

#380765 Sun, 17 Jun 07 08:38 PM

New2grammar wrote:
Cool Breeze, I find this post of yours to be most interesting.

Thanks, N2G

You've got your English correct in your examples, but some of the terms are wrong. There are no absolute superlatives in your sentences. (The one that says a girls was "smartest when she was 5 years old" is grammatically correct, but it strikes me as odd because no one is at their smartest at such an early age!) Actually, I don't think there is a special term for a superlative that compares a person to himself/herself. But if that is done, the can't be used, you are right there.

You have an absolute superlative when you can replace most with very or perhaps even extremely and the meaning is unchanged:

This is a most interesting book. (= very interesting, extremely interesting)

Even short adjectives often form an absolute superlative with most, not with the + est:
You have been most kind. (Not: the kindest)

However, there are exceptions:
I'll do it with the greatest pleasure. (Not: I'll do it with most great pleasure.)

The greatest is usually a relative superlative:
He is the greatest writer of all.

So the greatest can be both a relative and absolute superlative - absolute in some fixed expressions only. English is spoken using lots of fixed phrases and sometimes any deviation from them may result either in your being misunderstood or in your sounding unnatural. The greatest is a good example of the restrictions there are regarding usage. We saw above that there is an absolute superlative in I'll do it with the greatest pleasure.

However, if you say Shakespeare is the greatest playwright, it is no longer an absolute superlative because Shakespeare is clearly compared to other playwrights! Should you say Shakespeare is a most great playwright? If there were any logic to English, the answer would be YES. People just don't say so. It's unnatural, or incorrect, or whatever.

English has its limitations and restrictions; the absolute superlative is one of them: there are adjectives that can't be used in the absolute superlative at all in many contexts. Surprise [:O]