Muntin/Mutin

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John Varela:
The vertical pieces of wood separating panes of a window are properly called "muntins". A friend of my wife used the variant "mutin" to describe these elements. If you Google on "window mutin" (without the quotes), you'll get 7,000 hits as compared to over 35,000 for "window muntin" (again without the quotes).
Muntin is in the dictionary, mutin is not, although it seems to be in fairly common use. This bothers SWMBO, and she has directed me to seek comment. She wants to know if mutin is a regional variant, a simple error, or what.
As for myself, while I know that mullion is the wrong word for the small pieces of wood I can never recall the correct word until someone reminds me. I suspect not one in 100 native speakers has ever heard the word "muntin".

John Varela
Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email.
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R H Draney:
John Varela filted:
[nq:1]The vertical pieces of wood separating panes of a window are properly called "muntins". A friend of my wife used ... correct word until someone reminds me. I suspect not one in 100 native speakers has ever heard the word "muntin".[/nq]
I know the word only as "muntin", or perhaps "munten"..

When she says "mutin", does the first syllable sound like that of "mutate" or of "mutton"?...r

Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.
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tony cooper:
[nq:1]The vertical pieces of wood separating panes of a window are properly called "muntins". A friend of my wife used ... correct word until someone reminds me. I suspect not one in 100 native speakers has ever heard the word "muntin".[/nq]
Says "muntin bar" here:
http://www.home-improvement-tip.com/home-improvement-replacement-windows-diagram.html

Some variations are added by Melissa
at:http://www.oldhouseweb.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11060 but the diagram shows "muntin".

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
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HVS:
[nq:1]The vertical pieces of wood separating panes of a window are properly called "muntins".[/nq]
In the US, yes.
Elsewhere they're properly called mullions (or munnions), and "muntin" refers to the secondary vertical parts of a panelled door or screen (the horizontal ones being rails).
[nq:1]A friend of my wife used the variant "mutin" to describe these elements. If you Google on "window mutin" (without ... directed me to seek comment. She wants to know if mutin is a regional variant, a simple error, or what.[/nq]
I'd read it as an error.
[nq:1]As for myself, while I know that mullion is the wrong word for the small pieces of wood[/nq]
Outside the US, the main verticals in a window the structural ones, that divide the lights are indeed mullions; the smaller ones are glazing bars.

Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
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John Varela:
[nq:1]The vertical pieces of wood separating panes of a window are properly called "muntins". A friend of my wife used ... correct word until someone reminds me. I suspect not one in 100 native speakers has ever heard the word "muntin".[/nq]
Clarification needed.
I know perfectly well the difference between a mullion and a muntin.

I am also aware that it's common usage to call a muntin a mullion.

The question at hand is, what about the variant pronunciation "mutin"? It seems to be common in writing though unrecognized by the OED.

SWMBO wants to know where it comes from and where it's used.

John Varela
Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email.
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HVS:
snip
[nq:1]Clarification needed. I know perfectly well the difference between a mullion and a muntin. I am also aware that it's common usage to call a muntin a mullion.[/nq]
Clarification needed here, too: my point is that it's not just a matter of "common usage": outside the US, mullion is the only correct term for that structural part of a window.

It would be a solecism to call a mullion a muntin here in the UK, as muntins exist here only in panelled doors and screens, not in windows.
[nq:1]The question at hand is, what about the variant pronunciation "mutin"? It seems to be common in writing though unrecognized by the OED. SWMBO wants to know where it comes from and where it's used.[/nq]
It's an error, pure and simple it's of the same type of mistake as any other mis-heard and mis-spelt word.
That's why it's not recognised by the OED it's like "ad nauseum", which is also extremely common in writing though unrecognised by the OED.

Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
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John Varela:
(in article (Email Removed)):
[nq:1]On 02 Sep 2008, John Varela wrote snip[/nq]
[nq:2]Clarification needed. I know perfectly well the difference between a ... that it's common usage to call a muntin a mullion.[/nq]
[nq:1]Clarification needed here, too: my point is that it's not just a matter of "common usage": outside the US, mullion ... mullion a muntin here in the UK, as muntins exist here only in panelled doors and screens, not in windows.[/nq]
A mullion is a vertical structural member between windows. A muntin is a narrow vertical piece of wood between panes within a window.

Muntins are often, in my experience, often called mullions. This is of course an error.
[nq:2]The question at hand is, what about the variant pronunciation ... to know where it comes from and where it's used.[/nq]
[nq:1]It's an error, pure and simple it's of the same type of mistake as any other mis-heard and mis-spelt ... by the OED it's like "ad nauseum", which is also extremely common in writing though unrecognised by the OED.[/nq]
The language evolves. If enough people call them muttons long enough, muttons they will be.
I like Pat Durkin's theory: it's a Bostonian mispronunciation propagated through a long-running television program. I'm going to tell SWMBO that's the answer to her question.

John Varela
Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email.
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HVS:
[nq:2]On 02 Sep 2008, John Varela wrote snip Clarification needed ... here only in panelled doors and screens, not in windows.[/nq]
[nq:1]A mullion is a vertical structural member between windows. A muntin is a narrow vertical piece of wood between panes within a window.[/nq]
Ah; I see your point. Thank you.
But it still needs to be qualified: elsewhere, that's a glazing bar it's not called a muntin, as muntins (outside the US) are exclusively part of a door or screen rather than a window.

I'm not objecting to your statement as long as you're happy to qualify that you're speaking of US English, not of English in general.
[nq:1]Muntins are often, in my experience, often called mullions. This is of course an error.[/nq]
Outside the US, calling a glazing bar a muntin is of course equally an error.
snip
[nq:1]The language evolves. If enough people call them muttons long enough, muttons they will be.[/nq]
Absolutely; but it's not there yet (any more than "ad nauseum" is there yet). And outside the US glazing bars aren't even muntins yet, let alone muttons.

Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
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