Native-speaker intuition.

I agree with you milky.

To dismiss conversational English purely because it's more complicated to explain is no answer at all!

Most students 'know' that conversational English differs from what they generally learn in the classroom, which is why many students ask specifically for 'conversation' courses.

Unfortunately there aren't any 'conversational' coursebooks that address this problem. Invariably most teachers use 'discussion' activity books to fill the void; a discussion, although it is one form of spoken English, is not a conversation.

A few years ago at a RELC conference held in Singapore , I asked 'grammar guru' Ron Carter the following question in open forum:

"Given what we now know about different registers of English and students' access to so much electronic media, such as English-laqnguage cable TV channels and the Internet; for how much longer do you think that teachers will be able to pretend that the fabricated English used in coursebooks and the classroom is connected in any way to 'real' English?"

He answer was very direct.

"Not long. Teachers will have to radically adapt the way they teach and what they teach, especially when it comes to acceptability - or get out of the classroom!"

You can imagine what a stir this caused amongst teachers that dismissed the 'vernacular' as sub-standard English.

And with regard to LGSWE, EnglishUser, it's actually not merely about conversation, but about different registers of English; it examines usage across four registers - Academic, Fiction, News and Conversation; which is why it's called 'Grammar of WRITTEN and SPOKEN English.

Helping users look at how English Grammar and Usage differs in different registers is very useful when it comes to appropriacy and accuracy.

How that's incorporated into coursebooks and course design is another matter...

English English of course. The original version of the language 

...but then we have lots of variation too...different accents and dialects.....different age groups speak differently....etc......etc......etc

It's an impossible question. There will never be one definitive 'English'.

Nona The Brit wrote:

English English of course. The original version of the language  ...but then we have lots of variation too...different accents and dialects.....different age groups speak differently....etc......etc......etc It's an impossible question. There will never be one definitive 'English'.

No, never. And the language got a very 'bad' start for that because the Angles, Saxons and Jutes who invaded Britain in the 5th century and brought the language with them from the continent didn't speak exactly the same language. These differences have persisted to this day and today's variations have their roots deep in history. If only one tribe had come from one geographic area, English would in all likelihood be more unified.

However, that could mean the language might not be as interesting and fascinating as it is.

Cheers
CB

<"Not long. Teachers will have to radically adapt the way they teach and what they teach, especially when it comes to acceptability - or get out of the classroom!" >

And I agree with him.

<And with regard to LGSWE, EnglishUser, it's actually not merely about conversation, but about different registers of English; it examines usage across four registers - Academic, Fiction, News and Conversation; which is why it's called 'Grammar of WRITTEN and SPOKEN English. >

Yes, I know. It's the same with the non-student edition. I was surprised recently to find an English language academy here in Spain that is offering spoken grammar and register use as part of the curriculum. I've covered such things in my classes for years, and most times without the approval of EFL bosses and course directors.

Hi Tam Sadek,

You wrote:

Most students 'know' that conversational English differs from what they generally learn in the classroom, which is why many students ask specifically for 'conversation' courses.

Does it? I think you can make yourself understood and understand others perfectly well if you speak English as it is described in ESL grammar books. Most people who ask for conversation courses do so because they want to gain fluency in spoken English.

Englishuser