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New2grammar  #512150  Sat, 10 May 08 06:02 PM

Ant, Nothing really. It's just that this is the third time in just several days some of us are discussing this topic

I guess it's a commonly faced problem.

  
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Yankee  #512151  Sat, 10 May 08 06:03 PM
Ant, I think you need to reread GG's post. Wink

After "I thought," do NOT use the simple present tense.

 

However, you could use the simple present tense in a direct quote:

"The spider is an insect," I thought (to myself).

"He is married," I thought (to myself).

 

  
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Ant_222  #512207  Sat, 10 May 08 11:12 PM
Amy:
«Ant, I think you need to reread GG's post.
After "I thought," do NOT use the simple present tense.»

I have read this commandment (sic!) about a million times in about a hundread threads, and all that in the past two or three days. In my previous post I didn't call it in question. Rather, I tried to devise a logical explanation for it. (skip the mess below)

1. A thought is something with a finite lifespan. For example, if I am no longer thinking my cat is coward, this thought has disappeared into non-existance.

2. Therefore, by saying "I thought..." I am referring to a past thought of mine and may not use Present Simple for it would contradict with the thought's being "dead".

3. However, in reported speech in focus is not a thought but only a manifestation of a thought. In a way, such a manifestatin is eternal and "lives" as the information of it's having been utterd exists (on any type of medium, from the brain to the book). This makes the act of speech less connected to its parental thought. For example, a thought may have a lot of manifestatins issued at different times.

4. "He said the Earth is round" — these words refer to a so called general truth, which is nothing else than a long-existing thought supported/shared by many people. So, why not refer to a past manifestaion of a present thought with a present tense?

5. "He thought the Earth was round". He had this though. Such was his thought. But know he is long dead and so are his thoughts, so how dare we to use a present tense to tell about things long gone?
  
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Yankee  #512244  Sun, 11 May 08 02:28 AM
 OK, I see.

I think another way "I thought" is used is to refer to something that the speaker once believed to be true, but now believes is or might be counterfactual.

 

  
Ant_222  #512363  Sun, 11 May 08 11:22 AM
Yankee

 

I think another way "I thought" is used is to refer to something that the speaker once believed to be true, but now believes is or might be counterfactual.

But sometimes happens this: The Greeks knew the Earth was round ;)

  
Pter  #512433  Sun, 11 May 08 01:55 PM
Hi Ant_222,

I think it may be futile to find out why.  Sometimes, language is just the way it is.  A language evolves and the reasons why it is now used this way are long forgotten.  We can only guess, just like a detective arriving at a crime scene and try to find out what happened in the past.  Some theories are better than the others and very often we just cannot be sure which one was what exactly happened.  If your theory helps you and others remember the rule, that would be a helpful theory (not necessarily true though).  For the time being, I would just say it 100 times after GG.  After "I thought," do NOT use the present tense.  That's enough for me.

  
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Ant_222  #512538  Sun, 11 May 08 07:24 PM
Fully agree with you, Pter!
  
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