need to back-shift?

Hi,

I think Kooyeen said something like you need to change your tense after verbs like 'thought' since they pertain more  to your feelings.

And I bellieve Mr. M said that the native speakers intuitively back-shift for the sentences like this:

I didn't know you have a sense of duty.     

But for these??

When I met a friend I haven't seen for a long time:

Hi, John. Nice to see you. I didn't know you are married. I am glad you told me you have recently got married. Or Hi, John. Nice to see you.  I didn't know you were married. I am glad you told me you have recently got married.

Going into the store to buy candies:

Look, John, I thought this candy is on sale. I was here yesterday evening and saw it on sale. Let's go buy the candy somewhere else.

Or

Look, John, I thought this candy was on sale. I was here yesterday evening and saw it on sale. Let's go buy the candy somewhere else.

I feel for those two examples, since they are not concern with someone's feelings, but pertain to factual scenarioes like being married and a candy being on sale yesterday and today, the need to back-shift isn't there for both of those situations like here:

I thought this car is the best one out there.

I thought buying a house is the best form of investment.

I thought John is the best-looking dude in the world.

I thougt Mr. Lee (who is dead) is someone we could consider as a role-model.          

Anonymous

I didn't know you are married.

Wrong!

Anonymous

 I didn't know you were married.

  Right!

Anonymous

I thought this candy is on sale.

Wrong!

Anonymous

I thought this candy was on sale.

Right!

Anonymous

I thought this car is the best one out there.

I thought buying a house is the best form of investment.

I thought John is the best-looking dude in the world.

I thougt Mr. Lee (who is dead) is someone we could consider as a role-model.      

Four sentences that are completely wrong!

Anonymous

I feel for those two examples, since they are not concern with someone's feelings, but pertain to factual scenarioes like being married and a candy being on sale yesterday and today, the need to back-shift isn't there for both of those situations

You are digging too deep.  It's the thinking part that shows the subjectivity, not what is thought about.

After "I thought" do NOT use the present tense!  See the posts that GG mentioned.  And do NOT use present tense after "I thought".

CJ

P.S.  - After "I thought", do NOT use the present tense. 

 

 

 

«I feel for those two examples, since they are not concern with someone's feelings, but pertain to factual scenarioes like being married and a candy being on sale yesterday and today, the need to back-shift isn't there for both of those situations»

I don't think it's too deep. It's OK.

Try contemplating the difference between reported speech, reported thinking (I thought, he thought) and reported knowing (I knew, they knew).

What has been said has been said. A spoken statement is only the expression of thinking/klnowing, which exist irregardless of whether they have been expressed in words or not. And it is this independence that allows us to avoid tense-shifting sometimes!

With reported thinking we refer to the root (the Thought), rather than an oral/written manifsetation of it. The thought is what is reported and a thought's lifespan is finite, so by saying: "I thought the spider is an insect" you force a thought to be timeless (or eternal) which is unnatural and sounds unnatural. A fact may be timeless (if it is a general truth), but one's thought thereabout may not!

What.?.