Click here to play!
Click here to play!

Negation/punctuation

Click here to play
   Share on Facebook  
paco2004  #103585  Sat, 28 May 05 07:11 AM
Hello Teachers

"She didn't like him because he was rich."
When you read this, which sense do you take as its meaning?
(1) She liked him, but not because he was rich.
(2) She didn't like him, because he was rich.

paco
  
Top 25 Contributor
Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004
Senior Member (4,095)
In Japan today even dogs are learning how to bow-wow in English.
Your Ad Here
CalifJim  #103587  Sat, 28 May 05 07:17 AM
Short of translating these into Spanish, or into some other language where some grammatical machinery such as the subjunctive can save us from the ambiguity, we'll have to resign ourselves to the fact that the subject sentence is just plain ambiguous.

Cleft sentences can sometimes save the day on these:

It was not because he was rich that she liked him.
It was because he was rich that she disliked him.

But to cut to the chase, I take (2) as the meaning if no other clues are available.

CJ
  
Top 10 Contributor
Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004
California
Veteran Member (16,496)
ModeratorProficient Speaker
"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche
Mister Micawber  #103604  Sat, 28 May 05 08:26 AM

And, without the comma, I would presume #1-- a clear proof of ambiguity.

  
Top 10 Contributor
Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004
Yokohama
Veteran Member (20,199)
SystemAdministratorTeachers
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'
paco2004  #103619  Sat, 28 May 05 10:06 AM
Hello Teachers

Thank you for your replies.

It seems a comma plays an important role in determining the scope of negation.
I should be careful in using a comma when making a complex sentence.

paco
  
Amandine  #103669  Sat, 28 May 05 04:26 PM
Hi Paco

I hadn't known either the importance of punctuction until I took a grammar class a couple of months ago.
here is something that can be useful to remember:
when a adverb clause precedes an independant clause ,a comma is used to separate the clauses. When the adverb clause follows, usually no comma is used.
which means, in your example, you should write
she didn't like him because he was rich or
because he was rich, she didn't like him
hope that helps!
  
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on Mon, Mar 21 2005
Chicago&Paris
Full Member (245)
paco2004  #103720  Sun, 29 May 05 01:51 AM
Hello Amandine

Thank you for the information. It's really helpful. Yes, I agree we had better front an adverbial clause, especially in speaking, to avoid the ambiguity of negation scope; "Because he was rich, she didn't like him" rather than "She didn't like him because he was rich." But I often come across to sentences written in a way like "She didn't like him, because he was rich". I think this way of writing is not so bad if a comma inserted between two clauses, because I feel people might often put an adverbial clause after the main clause as an additional information/thought. I am wondering if I were wrong.

paco
  
khoff  #103726  Sun, 29 May 05 02:42 AM
"She didn't like him because he was rich."

Here's another possibility that hasn't been mentioned:

"She didn't like him just because he was rich."

This one is also ambiguous, but I think it would be more likely to be interpreted as "she liked him, but not solely because of his wealth.

If you add a comma ("She didn't like him, just because he was rich.") then it flips back to the other meaning. (She disliked him solely because of his wealth."

Luckily, we have the word "dislike" available to eliminate the ambiguity.
  
Top 50 Contributor
Joined on Sun, Mar 6 2005
Denver, Colorado, USA, Earth
Senior Member (2,516)
ModeratorProficient Speaker
Native speaker of American English (but not a grammar expert)
paco2004  #103729  Sun, 29 May 05 02:59 AM
Hello Khoff

I agree. We can parse "She didn't like him because he was rich" as "She NOT [(liked) (him) (because he was rich)]". Here three elements are candidates to be negated. When we specify the negation to (liked), i.e., "NOT (liked)", we have to use "disliked" for "NOT (liked)".

paco
  
AddThis Feed Button RSS Feed: ESL General English Grammar Questions
© 2008 MediaCET Ltd.
Terms and Conditions