noun

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Anonymous

#513414 Wed, 14 May 08 05:22 AM

Hi, I have two questions

1. I learned that we could use the word 'different' with an uncountable noun like 'different grammar'. Then, it is also known to me that we can't use the word 'several' with an uncountable noun. Going back to the word 'different', how possibly one's perception of the situation be different for the situation outlined with a variable noun, a noun that be both countable and uncontable.

We held different discussion on the topic and couldn't reach agreement.

We held different discussions on the topic and couldn't reach agreement.

2. Yesterday, I and my roommate went shopping together to buy soap and found there are a lot of varieties/brands of soap in stock at the market, After looking at the choices, we forewent with our ususal brand of soap and bought another brand.

I am at home and trying to wash my hands and found there isn't the soap we bought yesterday; and I told to my roommate this.

1. Hi, where is a soap we bought yesterday? I want to use it. -- Does this sound OK ?

OR does it have to be this?

2. Hi, where is another brand of soap we bought yesterday. I want to use it.

Anonymous

Grammar, Nouns, Uncountable nouns, Countable nouns

Mister Micawber

#513418 Wed, 14 May 08 05:41 AM

1. I learned that we could use the word 'different' with an uncountable noun like 'different grammar' -- Right
Then, it is also known to me that we can't use the word 'several' with an uncountable noun.-- Right

We held different discussion on the topic and couldn't reach agreement. -- No, the grammar is not good-- by using 'hold' and 'different' here, you have made 'discussion' countable.
We held different discussions on the topic and couldn't reach agreement. -- OK

2. Yesterday, I and my roommate went shopping together to buy soap and found there are a lot of varieties/brands of soap in stock at the market, After looking at the choices, we forewent our usual brand of soap and bought another brand.

1. Hi, where is a soap we bought yesterday? I want to use it. -- Does this sound OK ? -- No; you only bought one kind yesterday: 'the soap'
2. Hi, where is another brand of soap we bought yesterday. I want to use it. -- No; you only bought one kind yesterday: 'the other brand of soap'

Mister Micawber

Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004

Yokohama

Veteran Member (19,523)

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.' . 'A fabis abstineto' - Anon

Grammar, Nouns, Uncountable nouns, Countable nouns

Clive

#513419 Wed, 14 May 08 05:43 AM

Hi,

We held different discussion on the topic and couldn't reach agreement. Don't say this.

We held different discussions on the topic and couldn't reach agreement. Say it this way.

I am at home and trying to wash my hands and found there isn't the soap we bought yesterday; and I told to my roommate this.

1. Hi, where is a soap we bought yesterday? I want to use it. -- Does this sound OK ? No.

OR does it have to be this?

2. Hi, where is another brand of soap we bought yesterday. I want to use it. No. Say it this way.

Hi, where is the other brand of soap we bought yesterday? I want to use it.

or more concisely,say

Hi, where is the other soap we bought yesterday?

Best wishes, Clive

Clive

Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004

Canada

Veteran Member (19,454)

El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo

Grammar, Nouns, Uncountable nouns, Countable nouns

CalifJim

#513450 Wed, 14 May 08 08:42 AM

Anonymous
I learned that we could use the word 'different' with an uncountable noun

Think of these as exceptions. different is used far more often with countable nouns. If you do have a case where both the countable and the uncountable form of a noun can occur with different, the definition of the noun will be slightly different for each of the two usages.

The rat exhibits different behavior each time it runs through the maze.

(What the rat does each time is different. There is nothing specified about what the rat does on any given occasion.)

The rat exhibits a different behavior each time it runs through the maze.

(The specific behavior, possibly listed in a repertory of behaviors used by the researchers, is a different behavior each time. The rat scratched his head one time; it turned in a circle another time; and so on.)

Anonymous
went shopping together ... bought another brand. ... [couldn't find] the soap we bought yesterday

You've already said it in your set-up. Say this:

Where is the soap we bought yesterday?

__________

Or did you buy several bars of soap and you want to ask about one bar of soap? In that case say this:

Where is one of those bars of soap we bought yesterday?

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (15,969)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Nouns, Uncountable nouns, Countable nouns

Anonymous

#513451 Wed, 14 May 08 09:02 AM

Thank you, Mr. M and Clive for your responses.

Yes, it makes sense to say that by using 'hold' and 'different', I have made the word 'discussion' countable -- Good. I wil further study that, but I think I have seen some cases where the context is somewhat set like the above situation wherer both 'hold' and 'different' unfolds the action countably, yet the resorting to uncountable usage has still prevailed.

I think it might be better to make it less straight forward like this:

Different discussion on this topic might not be the suitable way to go about reaching any kind of agreement; I think the best way is to hold a single discussion on the matter tomorrow morning with all the concerned parties in attendance. How about it, gentlemen. Would you go for my idea?

As to no 2, I would change like this:

Yesterday, I and my roommate went shopping together to buy soap and found there are a lot of brands of soap in stock in the market. Aftr looking at the choices, we forewent our usual brand of soap and two other brands of soap, one in the yellow package and the other in the blue package, both from different makers.

I am home and trying to wash my hands and upon realizing, there are two brands of soap on the sink, I tells my roommate this (I think the sentence I wrote originally contained tensical mistakes. Do do you agree?):

1. Hi, where is a soap in the yellow package we bought yesterday? Let me try that one.

Or does it have to be this?

2. Hi, where is a brand of soap in the yellow package we bought yesterday? Let me try that one.

If no. 1 doesn't work, can you give me one sentence where the phrase 'a soap' will fit right into?

Anonymous

Clive

#513559 Wed, 14 May 08 01:27 PM

Hi,

Different discussion <<< This is starting to become somewhat acceptable, but still a little odd on this topic might not be the suitable way to go about reaching any kind of agreement; I think the best way is to hold a single discussion on the matter tomorrow morning with all the concerned parties in attendance. How about it, gentlemen. Would you go for my idea?

As to no 2, I would change like this:

1. Hi, where is a soap in the yellow package we bought yesterday? Let me try that one. We don't say 'a soap' to mean 'a piece of soap'. 'A bar of soap' is the common phrase.

Here, you are being specific ( . . . the yellow package . . . ), so say 'the soap . . . '

Or does it have to be this?

2. Hi, where is a the brand of soap in the yellow package we bought yesterday? Let me try that one.

If no. 1 doesn't work, can you give me one sentence where the phrase 'a soap' will fit right into?

Scientists are trying to invent a soap that will be safe for people with skin allergies.

Best wishes, Clive

Clive