Noun clauses

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Qgaby

#423650 Wed, 26 Sep 07 04:21 AM

In "That You like it I find difficult to believe" What is the function of the that clause? Is "find"a complex verb ( V+do+OC)? is there an extraposition there???

Qgaby

Joined on Wed, Sep 26 2007

Argentina

New Member (15)

Verbs, Clauses, Nouns

Clive

#423664 Wed, 26 Sep 07 06:02 AM

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

It seems to me to function as the object of the verb 'find', ie "I find that you like it difficult to believe."

But perhaps you are looking for some other form of analysis and answer?

Best wishes, Clive

Clive

Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004

Canada

Veteran Member (20,467)

El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo

Verbs, Nouns

Qgaby

#423980 Wed, 26 Sep 07 07:07 PM

Thanks for your reply.

Definitely, this is the object to the verb "find". What upsets me is that this is a quite common structrure, but I cannot account for the fact that the CO appears at the beginning of the sentence. For sure this is not a case of cleft sentence, is it? How do we explain this movement?

best wishes

qgaby

Qgaby

Verbs, Nouns

Bluejay

#423984 Wed, 26 Sep 07 07:25 PM

In "That You like it I find difficult to believe" What is the function of the that clause? Is "find"a complex verb ( V+do+OC)? is there an extraposition there???

I may be wrong, but as I view your sentence, I keep telling myself that there should be another "it" in it.

I find it difficult to believe that you like it.

Shouldn't the object complement "difficult" be modifying it, while the the infinite phrase "to believe that you like it" modifies (adverbially) the adjective "difficult"?

Bluejay

Joined on Fri, Sep 14 2007

New Member (16)

Verbs, Clauses, Nouns

CalifJim

#424037 Wed, 26 Sep 07 10:10 PM

The function of the that-clause is direct object of believe.
Believe what? Believe that you like it.

The that-clause can also be considered the direct object of the find construction.

Note the grammar of find.
I find this difficult. (this is the direct object of find. Find what? Find this.)

With the object preposed:
This I find difficult.

Now suppose the adjective complement is extended with an infinitive thus:
I find this [difficult to believe]. (Find what? This. Believe what? This.)
Object preposed:
This I find [difficult to believe].

In your example sentence this is replaced by that you like it:
I find that you like it [difficult to believe].¹ (I find the fact that you like it ...)
Object preposed:
That you like it I find [difficult to believe].

CJ

¹This turn of phrase is almost never used. Instead, anticipatory it replaces the object of find, which is postposed.
I find it [difficult to believe] that you like it.

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (16,549)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Grammar, Constructions, Clauses, Nouns, Direct objects

Qgaby

#424039 Wed, 26 Sep 07 10:15 PM

I also find that there should be an "it" functioning as an anticipatory OD.Then, the Structure would be like this:

[I ] [ Find it difficult to believe that you like it] P

S Complex Ant CO REal DO

verb DO

But the fact is that there's no "it" in the sentence!! And this changes the whole story!!!! doesn't it?

Qgaby

Verbs, Nouns

CalifJim

#424043 Wed, 26 Sep 07 10:23 PM

The clause that you like it is moved to the beginning of the sentence, so anticipating it is out of the question! That would be anticipating the blank space at the end of the sentence where that you like it used to be (before fronting it).

Anticipatory it only occurs before the entity it anticipates.

CJ

CalifJim

Clauses, Nouns

Qgaby

#424044 Wed, 26 Sep 07 10:24 PM

Your explanation is really very clear. Thanks a lot. What I was not able to conceive was that the DO was preposed, although it was a common structure.