J. W. Love    744253 Sun, 16 Nov 03 11:10 AM "Why would it require any dashes on hyphens? "New York based company" does not leave any room for misinterpretation whatsoever, innit?" What's a "based company"? a misreading of "biased company"? In , Chicago wants an en-dash after , as Aaron said. J. W. Love Hyphenation, Countries, United States, Punctuation

	ap    744277 Sun, 16 Nov 03 12:45 PM "... I recall being taught that one of the roles ... York-based company" as one that would require an en dash." "Why would it require any dashes or hyphens? "New York based company" does not leave any room for misinterpretation whatsoever, innit?" The convention I go by, which I read in a book somewhere, is that the capitalisation of "New York" makes a first hyphen unnecessary. But however that may be, "New York-based company" just looks awful to me. And what happens if the sentence starts with those words ("New York-based companies win more contracts")? It might appear that companies recently established in York are winning more contracts, god bless em. * What intrigues me about the original example "convent-turned-women's refuge" is that there's nothing at all wrong with it said aloud - rewording isn't needed; it is only when trying to set the blighter on paper that the problems start. Peasemarch. ap Hyphenation, Sentences, Countries, United States, Writing, Punctuation, Capital Letters

	J. W. Love    744321 Sun, 16 Nov 03 03:40 PM "The convention I go by, which I read in a book somewhere, is that the capitalisation of "New York" makes a first hyphen unnecessary. But however that may be, "New York-based company" just looks awful to me." But that's different! That's a hyphen! To refer to a company based in New York, you want an en-dash, so the phrase looks in print closer to how looks here. "("New York-based companies win more contracts")? It might appear that companies recently established in York are winning more contracts, god bless em." Yes, that's right: that's what it means, because that's a hyphen there, not an en-dash. It may be best if as some publishers suggest we type two hyphens for an en-dash and three for an em-dash. J. W. Love Hyphenation, Countries, United States, Writing, Punctuation, Capital Letters

	Donna Richoux    744413 Sun, 16 Nov 03 06:21 PM "The convention I go by, which I read in a ... may be, "New York-based company" just looks awful to me." "But that's different! That's a hyphen! To refer to a company based in New York, you want an en-dash, so the phrase looks in print closer to how looks here." That may be true in the font you use, but in the monospace font I use, that is way too long to represent an en dash. [nq:1] in Google yields explanatory articles.) Best Donna Richoux Donna Richoux Articles, Hyphenation, Countries, United States, Punctuation

	Skitt    744454 Sun, 16 Nov 03 06:54 PM "... } First the original sentence: } In (the book) "Paradise", a convent-turned-women's refuge is } stormed ... from being a book to being a former convent, the revised version is certainly readable at a lower grade level." I screwed up, it seems. It's a book. Cancel the applause. Reset. Skitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ Skitt Sentences, Countries, United States

	J. W. Love    744466 Sun, 16 Nov 03 07:15 PM "I'm curious as to who would suggest this." In my experience, Garland, Routledge, Taylor & Francis; in Franke's, publishers of certain medical journals (see his post). J. W. Love

	Mark Brader    744584 Sun, 16 Nov 03 09:17 PM "Ugh! That's even worse than the original it uses ... the scope of the construct extends as far as "refuge"." "I think it does: I recall being taught that one of the roles of an en dash is to carry the force of a hyphen with the power to extend its scope over white space." I will admit that as a possible construct (in monospaced text I'll write it was a spaced hyphen, but you may imagine an en dash) where the things on each side of the punctuation are have the same role, as in "the New York - Los Angeles flight". I don't accept it as valid when the hyphen is converting a word to an affix, as in the example "a New York - based company" posted elsewhere; that still has to be New-York-based as far as I'm concerned. "The web page cites the Chicago Manual of Style as agreeing with me." Well, it wouldn't be the first thing in the Chicago Manual that I say is wrong. See the signature quote. Mark Brader > "I've just checked my dictionary, though, and it does (Email Removed) > not agree with me, which just goes to show how wrong Toronto > dictionaries can be." Gary Williams My text in this article is in the public domain. Mark Brader Articles, Hyphenation, Countries, Colours, United States, Writing, Punctuation, Styles, Affix