We have partnered with TradePub to bring you free industry magazines and resources - no coupons or credit cards required!

Visit: englishforums.tradepub.com


Share this topic:
This question is Not Answered
Latest post Sun, Sep 13 2009 7:44 PM by Anonymous. 3 replies.
Suggest an answer | | |
Anonymous  +  595517 Wed, 26 Nov 08 01:58 PM
Hi, How could we tell if a participle in what looks like a past perfect progressive tense is a participle part of the tense or an adjective of a past perfect tense construction?

The cook had been making cake all day until he was called by the head chef to do other tasks. -- looks to be a good past past perfect progressive tense.

The student had been finishing up on his composition when a knock on the door put a stop to it. -- looks to be an adjectival phrase with past perfect before it.
Clive  +  595693 Wed, 26 Nov 08 04:33 PM
Hi,
 How could we tell if a participle in what looks like a past perfect progressive tense is a participle part of the tense or an adjective of a past perfect tense construction?

The cook had been making cake all day until he was called by the head chef to do other tasks. -- looks to be a good past past perfect progressive tense.

The student had been finishing up on his composition when a knock on the door put a stop to it. -- looks to be an adjectival phrase with past perfect before it.

#2 doesn't look adjectival to me. It looks the same as #1.

How would you assess this version?
The cook had been making cake all day when a knock on the door put a stop to it. 

Best wishes, Clive
Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004
Canada
Veteran Member 29,583
El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo
CalifJim  +  595839 Wed, 26 Nov 08 07:13 PM
The problem of disambiguating a participle that is part of a verb phrase from a participle that is an adjective is not related at all to the past perfect tense.  Any time you have the verb to be in any tense, the same problem can occur.

You seem to be focusing on present participles. 

As a general rule -- but it is not 100% accurate -- an animate subject will lead you to think of the -ing word as part of a verb phrase.  (That's the case with both of your examples.) 

An inanimate subject is often a signal that the -ing word is an adjective.  The present participle in the latter case is often from a verb of psychological state -- a word that expresses a human reaction to a situation.

Examples of present participles as adjectives: amusing, annoying, confusing, disgusting, embarrassing, exciting, horrifying, irritating, maddening, perplexing, revolting, sickening, surprising, troubling, upsetting.

The play [is / was / had been / will be / ... ] [amusing / exciting / perplexing].

The food [is / was / had been / will be / ... ] [disgusting / sickening].

The sight of all that blood [is / was / ...] [horrifying / troubling].

The present participles of some of these verbs are occasionally used as parts of verb phrases with human beings as direct objects:

The yapping dogs [are / have been] [annoying / upsetting] your mother.  Take them outside.

Her unusual behavior was clearly [embarrassing / irritating] the guests. 

Peter [is / was] always surprising his wife with expensive gifts. 

____

Note how the presence of a direct object makes the participle part of a verb phrase:

His actions were embarrassing.  (were embarrassing : linking verb and adjective)

His actions were embarrassing the women.  (were embarrassing : verb phrase

CJ

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004
California
Veteran Member 22,388
"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche
Anonymous, 69 days ago

Had and been are both helping verbs. Helping verbs must help action verbs. In this sentence, had and been are helping the present participle making, which is an action verb. Because making is a present participle, it must have helping verbs to help it.

© MediaCet Ltd. 2009, v5.0.3607.32596. All content posted by our users is a contribution to the public domain, this does not include imported usenet posts.*
For web related enquires please contact us on webmaster@mediacet.com, status updates are available at status.mediacet.com.
*Usenet post removal: Use 'X-No-Archive'. You may not have understood that your posts would end up in the public domain. Please send proof of the poster's email, we will remove immediately.