PASTEL  +  41652 Wed, 11 Aug 04 07:38 AM Active Voice 1) I will be washing the car if you visit me at 5 tomorrow. (Future Progressive) 2) I have been washing the car when you visited me at 5. (Present Perfect Progressive) 3) I had been washing the car at 4 when you visited me at 5.(Past Perfect Progressive) 4) I will have been washing the car at 3 if you come to visit me at 4. (Fiture Perfect Progressive) I'd like to discuss active voice first before I could get messed up in passive voice. Could you tell me these 4 sentences are correct or unnatural? Thank you. Pastel. PASTEL Joined on Thu, Jul 1 2004 Regular Member 547 Past Perfect, Present Perfect, Perfect Progressive, Future Progressive

	CalifJim  +  41661 Wed, 11 Aug 04 08:12 AM 1. OK 2. No. :( You can't have an event indicating a specific time ('you visited at 5') together with the present perfect tense. Better: "I was washing the car when my friend visited me." Or: "I have been washing the car since 10 am." (Hopefully it's not 8 in the evening when you say this. ) 3. The two different times make this impossible. Recall that "when" means "at the same time that", so you've said, "X (which was going on at 4) happened at the same time that Y happened (Y happened at 5)." So you've said that 4 and 5 are the same time! Better: "I had been washing the car when my friend visited me." Or: "I had been washing the car since 10 am." 4. Same general problem as in Example 3. Better: "I will have been washing the car for hours when you visit me." (Better grammatically, but strange.) CalifJim Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004 California Veteran Member 22,383 "There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche Tenses, Present Perfect

	PASTEL  +  41667 Wed, 11 Aug 04 08:43 AM Thank you, Jim. 1) I will be washing the car if you visit me at 5 tomorrow. 2) I have been washing the car since 10 am." 3) I had been washing the car when my friend visited me. 4) I will have been washing the car for hours when you visit me. Could these 4 tenses gererate any passive voice? I guess not. Pastel PASTEL Tenses

	PASTEL  +  41719 Wed, 11 Aug 04 04:20 PM >> There are two sentences listing on my grammar book, it said they're the same meaning.So I think "when" can sometimes means "during the time that..." Please keep silence while I am talking to you. Please keep silence when I am talking to you. PASTEL Grammar

	CalifJim  +  41812 Thu, 12 Aug 04 03:18 AM 1) I will be washing the car if you visit me at 5 tomorrow. 2) I have been washing the car since 10 am." 3) I had been washing the car when my friend visited me. 4) I will have been washing the car for hours when you visit me. Yes, you have an agent "I" and a direct object "car" in all four. So passive is possible. The results of transforming these into the passive voice are, however, infelicitous, not to say 'stinkers'. 1) The car will be being washed by me if you visit me at 5 tomorrow. 2) The car has been being washed by me since 10 am. 3) The car had been being washed by me when my friend visited me. 4) The car will have been being washed by me for hours when you visit me. ("you visit me" in these can also by passivized as "I am visited by you".) P.S. Your remarks on "while" / "when" touch on a subtle point. Still, the keeping silent and the talking are happening (if the command is obeyed) at the same time. CalifJim Direct Objects

	miriam  +  41856 Thu, 12 Aug 04 08:56 AM Hello, Pastel. Almost every sentence (not all of them) that contains a direct object can be turned into the passive voice. However, not every possible passive construction is actually used in English. Some tenses -such as the future perfect progressive- seldom, if ever, are used in passive voice. The use of the passive voice is more a matter of "focus of attention/interest" than of "grammatical possibility". Also, remember that not every transitive verb has a passive counterpart. "The suit fits him perfectly" has a transitive verb and an object, yet you cannot passivise the sentence. Miriam miriam Joined on Mon, May 10 2004 Argentina Regular Member 821 "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." Plato Verbs, Constructions, Tenses, Direct Objects, Perfect Progressive

	PASTEL  +  42092 Fri, 13 Aug 04 06:24 PM Thank you very much as always, Mirian and Jim. Yes, you have an agent "I" and a direct object "car" in all four. So passive is possible. The results of transforming these into the passive voice are, however, infelicitous, not to say 'stinkers'. What do 'stinkers' mean when you are refering to sentences? What do 'ugly sentences' mean? Pastel PASTEL Direct Objects

	CalifJim  +  42122 Sat, 14 Aug 04 02:45 AM In American slang a mischievous child is sometimes called "a little stinker". In general it means something that stinks, something you don't want to get near! It's similar to 'ugly thing' in reference to sentences (when I use it, anyway). In the sense I'm using it, a "stinker" and an "ugly sentence" are the same thing, but "stinker" is just a funnier way to say it. If you like slang, then here's another expression: You can call ugly sentences "dogs"! No matter what you call them, there are sentences, probably in every language, which sound awkward and strange. They may be grammatically correct, but no one would say them except in the most unusual circumstances. They are sometimes so twisted that someone who heard them might have to stop and ask you to repeat what you said. "Infelicitous" isn't quite so awful. I love that word. CalifJim

	PASTEL  +  42304 Sun, 15 Aug 04 09:12 AM > 1) They not only visualise their goals,they also imagine exactually how their bodies will feel when they are performing most effectively. 2) They not only visualise their goals,they also imagine exactually how their bodies will feel when they perform most effectively. 3) Susan called me when I was taking a shower. 4) Susan called me when I took a shower. These are my interpretations: 1) They perform an excercise and imagine how their bodies feel at the same time. Focus on the process. They imagine how their bodies feel when they are in the process of performance. 2) It's a general idea, using simple present to state a general fact. 3) I was taking a shower, and Susan's phone call interrupted in. 4) It's a general description stating something happened in the past. How do you like my interpretations? Pastel PASTEL Simple Present