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Past modals

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paco2004  +  216365 Sun, 16 Apr 06 10:38 AM
 Lcchang wrote:
  • Does the past modals uesd here mean something happened in the past? If it is true, then why can "may" be used here since it is a present modal?
  • Can we consider all the sentences above to be conditoinal sentences because they all look like in past perfect tense here?

    • Appendix

    In the case of the modals belonging to "the possibility", the event the speaker think about is a 'counter-fact' (unrealized) past event, when <modal + have + V> is used.

    (EX) He could have left earlier. 
            =I think it was possible for him to leave earlier, but actually he didn't leave earlier.
    (EX) He shouldn't have stayed so late. 
            =I think it was better for him not to stay so late, but actually he stayed so late.
    (EX) He could have been more considerate.
            =I think it was possible for him to be more considerate, but actually he was not so considerate.

    paco
    paco2004
    Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004
    Senior Member 4,095
    In Japan today even dogs are learning how to bow-wow in English.
    , ,
    Lcchang, 3 yr 222 days ago
    I can get there now. Thanks, Thethenothere123 .
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    Lcchang  +  216488 Sun, 16 Apr 06 04:53 PM

    I see, Paco. What about "may"?

    It seems to me that a present auxiliary "may" is used for the past event. That has confused me for a while.

    She may have forgotten our invitation.

    Other than being used for degrees of certainty for the events that was happened in the past, can "may" also be used for opinions and advice?

    You may have reminded him of the time.

    And last, can we consider both situations kind of conditional sentences?

    She may have forgotten our invitation. (It was possible for her to leave earlier, but actually she didn't leave earlier.)

    You may have reminded him of the time. (In fact I didn't remind him of the time.)

    LCChang
    Lcchang
    , ,
    paco2004  +  216612 Sun, 16 Apr 06 11:27 PM
     Lcchang wrote:
    It seems to me that a present auxiliary "may" is used for the past event. That has confused me for a while.

    She may have forgotten our invitation.

    Other than being used for degrees of certainty for the events that was happened in the past, can "may" also be used for opinions and advice?

    You may have reminded him of the time.

    And last, can we consider both situations kind of conditional sentences?

    She may have forgotten our invitation. (It was possible for her to leave earlier, but actually she didn't leave earlier.)

    You may have reminded him of the time. (In fact I didn't remind him of the time.)

    Hello Chang

    I think we cannot use "may have done" in the context the speaker knows the said event was counter-factual. "She may have forgotten our invitation" is "I think it is probable that she forgot our invitation". "You may have reminded him of the time" sounds weird at least to me. You can use "Somebody may have reminded someone of a time" in the way like: "Tom Bates, Berkeley's newly elected mayor, may have reminded voters of a time when a more radical brand of politics marked the city". Here the speaker indicates the possibility or the probability the mayor reminded the voters of the old time.

    I feel I myself am a bit confused with this kind of stuff. So it would be better for me to organize the knowledge about <modal+have+done>.

    1. The construct <modal+have+done>  can be used for all modals when the speaker wants to express his/her thought about a past event that the event probably happened. The degree of the probability decreases in the order : (highest) "must" - ("ought to") - "should" - "may" - "could"/"might" (lowest).
    (EX) Chang got 640 in TOEFL. He must have worked hard.
    (EX) There is such a message from her. She may have started yesterday.
    (EX) Our teacher might have taught us the phrase, but I am not sure.

    2. Some modals can be used in the construct <modal+have+done> to express the speaker's opinion (or regret) about the past fact that an event did not take place. The modals used for this purpose are "ought to", "should", "could", "might".  "May" is rarely used for this purpose (except in conditional sentences).
    (EX) He failed in the exam. He should have studied harder.
    (EX) She could have behaved better than she did.
    (EX) I might have known this would happen.

    paco
    paco2004
    , , , ,
    Lcchang  +  216701 Mon, 17 Apr 06 05:09 AM

    Thanks, Paco. You are such a wonder teacher. You must have answered most of my questions.

    Best regards,

    LCChang
    Lcchang
    Anonymous, 110 days ago
    Hello!

    I hope I can answer some of your questions!

    The past modal is something that we use when we make assuptions of past event. As we are making assumptions, we may be more or less sure about it, therefore you  have the probability (more sure) and possibility (less sure).

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