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past perfect

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Huevos  #515005  Sat, 17 May 08 10:42 PM
New2grammar
Huevos, could you give a couple of examples to support your statement.
Bob went home because his wife had fallen over in the shower and broken her leg.

Bob went home because his wife fell over in the shower and broke her leg.

 

Bob used to play a lot of tennis when he was younger.

Bob played a lot of tennis when he was younger. 

 

Bob has been to the Post Office this morning.

Bob went to the Post Office this morning.

  
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New2grammar  #515008  Sat, 17 May 08 10:56 PM

English is pretty relaxed when it comes to past events and we often use the past indefinite where the past imperfect, past perfect, or present perfect might be grammatically preferable, but, because we are all used to hearing it we don't find it confusing

Are the first sentences what you said grammatically preferable?

If so, I think I understand what you mean now. However, the third first sentence is ,as far as I know, grammatically incorrect.

 

  
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Huevos  #515015  Sat, 17 May 08 11:15 PM
New2grammar
Are the first sentences what you said grammatically preferable?
Yes, but Americans have become so lazy with perfects that these days it is quite acceptable for them not to use the perfect here at all. 
New2grammar
However, the third first sentence is ,as far as I know, grammatically incorrect.
"Has [something] this morning" (present perfect) is fine grammatically. The state caused by the event prevails to the present, i.e. "This morning Bob has eaten a full English breakfast so it's unlikely he's going to want to take lunch early".
  
New2grammar  #515020  Sat, 17 May 08 11:32 PM

Oh no! That's not what I was taught. I hope CJ or someone could come in and explain why this is acceptable. Maybe it's an exception.

  
Huevos  #515025  Sat, 17 May 08 11:49 PM
New2grammar
That's not what I was taught.
What were you taught?

By the way it was ok for Shakespeare: Hadst thou done so, the kings that have revolted, and the soldier that has this morning left thee, would have still followed thy heels

  
New2grammar  #515032  Sun, 18 May 08 12:20 AM

I was told that present perfect tense should not go with a point in the past.

For example, I've finished my homework in the morning. (wrong)

Say either,

I've finished my homework

Or

I finished my howework in the morning.

Since can be used with the present perfect to indicate a range

I've been watching TV since this morning.

I've been here since 7 a.m.

 

  
Huevos  #515044  Sun, 18 May 08 01:04 AM
New2grammar
I was told that present perfect tense should not go with a point in the past.
That's correct but it can be used with any current temporal marker, i.e. this morning , today, this afternoon, this evening, this week, this month, this year, etc.

From "A Grammar of the English Language", Volume I, 65B: A minute before 12 o'clock in the morning we may say 'I have bought a new hat this morning'. A minute later this morning is gone forever and this afternoon is ushered in. After the bell taps twelve we must say 'I bought a new hat this morning'. Thus the present perfect distinguishes sharply between the past and the present. It can never be used for something in the past.

 I hope that helps clarify.

  
New2grammar  #515105  Sun, 18 May 08 07:14 AM

I see. Thanks Huevos!!!

  
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