Tuongvan  +  651203 Thu, 22 Jan 09 08:22 AM Dear teachers, Could you please help me choose correctly between the present perfect and the past perfect in the following context? Hi, Jack, I am going to tell you about the  terrible thing that happened to me when I was in high school.This thing happened so many years ago that I haven't thought /hadn't thought about it in a long time until today.. As for me, I choose  the present perfect, but my teacher said it is past perfect. Iam very confused. Thank you in advance Tuongvan Joined on Sun, Dec 30 2007 Regular Member 975 van Present Tenses, Past Perfect, Present Perfect, Past Tenses, Context

	Old Man Gordon  +  651258 Thu, 22 Jan 09 09:35 AM I think you'll get mixed responses to this question.  Either one can be acceptable, depending on your viewpoint. I'll defend your teacher's opinion...There are three distinct times:   the terrible thing happened, you thought about it, you are telling about it.  In your view, I assume,  the thinking and telling are both happening in the present, which is why you chose present perfect. Old Man Gordon Joined on Fri, Mar 16 2007 Full Member 409 Present Tenses, Present Perfect

	Tuongvan  +  651302 Thu, 22 Jan 09 10:37 AM Thank you Old Man Gordon, Could you please tell me in an easy way when I must use Present perfect + until and when I must use past perfect + until today. I know that the past perfect expresses an action which happened before another action or a point of time in the past.So in the sentence I originally posted,  there are three distinct times: "the terrible thing happened" Past  "you thought about it" Past " you are telling about it." Present   The action " thinking" did not happen before the action "happening", so why do we use the past perfect as you and my teacher said? Your clarification of this issue is highly appreciated. Best wishes  Tuongvan Present Tenses, Past Perfect, Present Perfect, Past Tenses, Sentences

	Bokeh  +  651341 Thu, 22 Jan 09 11:32 AM   Tuongvan “I know that the past perfect expresses an action which happened before another action or a point of time in the past.So in the sentence I originally posted,  there are three distinct times: "the terrible thing happened" Past  "you thought about it" Past " you are telling about it." Present  ” Your timeline is wrong. a terrible thing happened you didn't think about it for some time at some time earlier today you did think about it now you are explaining what happened  For number two you should use the past perfect because that state ceased to be the case any longer once you reached number three. As for when you can use the present perfect, you can only use it when the temporal marker is still current. Bokeh Joined on Sun, Mar 18 2007 Spain Regular Member 531 Present Tenses, Past Perfect, Present Perfect, Past Tenses, Writing, Sentences

	Tuongvan  +  651368 Thu, 22 Jan 09 11:57 AM Hi Bokeh, Your explanation is still confusing to me.Idon't think there are four points of time here.There are only three ones : 1) the terrible thing happened 2)I didn't think about it for some time 3) Now I relate it So terrible thing happened first of all next I didn't think about it for some time And last of all Iam telling about the terrible thing Why Past perfect? Tuongvan Past Perfect, Past Tenses

	Bokeh  +  651407 Thu, 22 Jan 09 12:44 PM  There weren't four temporal markers, there were three. Number 2 on my list is a state that prevailed between one and three, and that is no longer the case. When a state (number 2) is no longer current it is in the past and this is why the past perfect is needed. Bokeh Past Perfect, Past Tenses, Writing

	Tuongvan  +  651481 Thu, 22 Jan 09 01:43 PM Hi Bokeh, If the number2 is no longer the case,why not use the simple past, because it doesn't happen before another past action? I am still confused about it. Tuongvan Simple Past, Past Tenses, Simple Tenses

	Bokeh  +  651488 Thu, 22 Jan 09 01:52 PM  We use past perfect for number two because it is no longer the case due to a past event (number three). These aren't just a bunch of things that happened in the past, they are interconnected. Bokeh Past Perfect, Past Tenses, Writing

	Tuongvan  +  651530 Thu, 22 Jan 09 02:46 PM Sorry, Bokeh. I am still confused about what you just explained.No.3 is "now I relate the story", which is present, not past. Tuongvan Apologies