Hi,

I want to confirm that I am using the correct grammar. Take the following sentences:

She is shaking as she has never been here before.
She is shaking as she had never been here before.

Nobody has ever said that to me before.
Nobody had ever said that to me before.

I believe that in the above sentences the second sentence for each pair is correct because the past perfect form is necessary. Since the past perfect is used when two past events occur, one before the other, it applies to these sentences because, even though not explicitly stated, it is implied that two past events occur. As in "She is shaking as she has never been here before she arrived two minutes ago" and "Nobody had ever said that to me before you just did."

I just want to confirm that I am correct in my view. I think you are trying too hard to be very, very logical. You can't always apply that approach to the way that we use grammar and language. The present perfect would be much more normal in both cases. Think of it as if the idea is ' . . before now'.

Would you argue that the idea of 'now' cannot be stretched to include 'one second ago'? How about 'one minute ago'?

Best wishes, Clive

Hi again,

you havent given a reason why it's present perfect. Because in your two examples, you are really talking about 'the past until now'. You are just splitting hairs over what we mean by 'now'.

What do you mean by "much more normal"?  I wouldn't say it's absolutely wrong to use the past perfect for something that happened two minutes ago, eg Nobody had ever said that to me before, but it sounds rather ridiculous.

Best wishes, Clive