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Past perfect tenses or Present perfect tenses?

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Latest post Sun, Oct 19 2008 10:44 AM by Cool Breeze. 7 replies.
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bhikkhu1991  +  577188 Fri, 17 Oct 08 08:49 AM

Hello,

 

 

Jack wasn't present at the meeting yesterday because he had gone overseas. Since then, he hasn't returned.

 

Could you please explain whether to use past perfect tenses or present perfect tenses in place of the underlined words?

 

Please note Jack is still alive until now.

 

I hope to hear from you soon.

 

Thank you.

 

 

With best wishes.
bhikkhu1991
Joined on Mon, Mar 31 2008
Full Member 116
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Cool Breeze  +  577218 Fri, 17 Oct 08 12:45 PM
bhikkhu1991
“

 

 

Jack wasn't present at the meeting yesterday because he had gone overseas. Since then, he hasn't returned.

”

 

 I would say: He hasn't returned yet, if anything is needed after the first sentence. Since then is wrong in your sentence.

CB

Cool Breeze
Joined on Fri, Apr 7 2006
Senior Member 3,926
"I hope you'll all live to be 150 years old - and the last voice you hear is mine!" Frank Sinatra on stage in Oslo, Norway, 28 September 1991
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CalifJim  +  577384 Fri, 17 Oct 08 09:54 PM
Cool Breeze
“Since then is wrong in your sentence.”
I tried to see your remark as correct, but after some thought, I still failed to see the wrongness you were pointing out.  Can you please elaborate?  Thanks!  Smile

CJ 
CalifJim
Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004
California
Veteran Member 22,128
"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche
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Goodman  +  577396 Fri, 17 Oct 08 10:32 PM

Jack wasn't present at the meeting yesterday because he had gone overseas. Since then, he hasn't returned.

 
I too have question with the use of “since” in this context for some reason.

I am trying to see the context better by changing it slightly for comparison.  

I would say, the following sentence is a mirror in structure to the posted question, except for “since”. I’D d think it’s fine  to omit it.

"Jack was not able to make it to your wedding last week because he had done overseas on a urgent call from his boss. He still hasn’t returned yet."

I think the problem is on "yesterday" which makes the usage of "since" rahter awkward. That's just my opinion.(:)) Smile
Goodman
Joined on Mon, Nov 7 2005
Senior Member 3,816
The name says it all!
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bhikkhu1991  +  577510 Sat, 18 Oct 08 10:07 AM

Hello,


Goodman
“

Jack wasn't present at the meeting yesterday because he had gone overseas. Since then, he hasn't returned.


I too have question with the use of “since” in this context for some reason.

I am trying to see the context better by changing it slightly for comparison.  

I would say, the following sentence is a mirror in structure to the posted question, except for “since”. I’D d think it’s fine  to omit it.

"Jack was not able to make it to your wedding last week because he had done overseas on a urgent call from his boss. He still hasn’t returned yet."

I think the problem is on "yesterday" which makes the usage of "since" rahter awkward. That's just my opinion.(:)) Smile

”



 


I appreciate all your responses. What do you think if I change the "yesterday" to "last week"? Can I still use "since then" in the following sentence?

Jack wasn't present at the meeting last week because he had gone overseas. Since then, he hasn't returned.

I hope to hear from you soon.

Thank you.


Best wishes
bhikkhu1991
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Cool Breeze  +  577551 Sat, 18 Oct 08 01:35 PM
CalifJim
“
Cool Breeze
“Since then is wrong in your sentence.”
I tried to see your remark as correct, but after some thought, I still failed to see the wrongness you were pointing out.  Can you please elaborate?  Thanks!  Smile

”

 

"Jack wasn't present at the meeting yesterday because he had gone overseas. Since then, he hasn't returned."

Hmm... Hmm As Goodman says, I think it's this combination of yesterday + since then + hasn't returned that bothers my ear. The fact that one can return only once if one has gone overseas seems to me to be an exacerbating factor for some reason. I can't think of a grammatical reason, though. My ear is probably wrong as you, a native speaker, see nothing wrong with the sentence.

CB

Cool Breeze
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CalifJim  +  577810 Sun, 19 Oct 08 08:38 AM
 Thanks, CB.  I vaguely see what you mean.  The combination you mention doesn't seem to bother me.  In that context since then made me think since the meeting.   He hasn't returned since the meeting seems all right to me.  Although ...  Hmm...

Does that give you the sense that he returned at the time of the meeting, but not again since then?  In that case, I think I see your point.  Smile

Maybe I was thinking, He hasn't returned since going overseas. 

CJ 
CalifJim
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Cool Breeze  +  577843 Sun, 19 Oct 08 10:44 AM
CalifJim
“ The combination you mention doesn't seem to bother me.  In that context since then made me think since the meeting.   He hasn't returned since the meeting seems all right to me.  Although ...  Hmm...

Maybe I was thinking, He hasn't returned since going overseas. 

”

 

 That's what I was thinking. Since then seems to admit of more than one interpretation in the sentence. That may have been a subconscious factor for me as well. As you are a native speaker who spends 24 hours a day in total immersion in English, it is only natural that you are more accustomed than I to subtleties like this.

CB

Cool Breeze
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