Past Simple or Past Perfect

How do these examples fit with the idea that past perfect indicates something farther back in the past than some other event? What is the explanation?

Wild surmise: is it because the 'past perfect action' started before the main action? e.g.

1. 'Before he had finished speaking, another servant came in and said that dinner was ready.'] He started speaking before the servant came in, and the action continued up to the servant's entry.

2. 'Mozart died before he had completed the Requiem Mass.' ] He started composing the Requiem Mass before he died.

3. 'A terrible scream cleaved the air before he had walked very far.'] He had walked at least a little way before the scream 'cleaved' (?) the air.

And in this case, perhaps because the 'normal' or 'desirable' order of events is being contrasted with what really happened:

4. 'One of the fast things suddenly zoomed by from the left and was gone before he had even realized it was coming.'] Ideally, he would have realized it was coming before it was gone.

(In other words, the 'before' is in some way marking 'past perfect potential'.)

Just a thought. Probably rubbish.

MrP

Can you always rephrase 'ABC happened, before he had done XYZ' as 'he had not done XYZ, when ABC happened', I wonder.

Additional wild surmise: is it sometimes a disguised past perfect subjunctive?

Your points about 'even' and 'completion' are interesting. I've noticed in questions about this in other threads that the 'finishing' and 'starting' are sometimes themselves taken as the prior action, which makes it even more difficult to understand.

MrP

CalifJim wrote:

Examples suggested by the results of a Google search: Mozart died before he had completed the Requiem Mass. One of the fast things suddenly zoomed by from the left and was gone before he had even realized it was coming. Before he had finished speaking, another servant came in and said that dinner was ready. He was whisked away to his next appointment before he had announced the finalists. A terrible scream cleaved the air before he had walked very far. Before he had even recovered, ten days later he tried suicide again He was surely the first man to be a senior official in the Ryder Cup before he had even played in the grand old match. How do these examples fit with the idea that past perfect indicates something farther back in the past than some other event? What is the explanation? CJ

Well, you know that the past perfect can be interpolated between TWO events in the past:

Event A             Event C            Event B  -------------------------------->time (NOW)     
simple past        past  perfect     simple past

It may be that:

Mozart died before he had completed the Requiem Mass
could be seen as:
Mozart died before he had completed the Requiem Mass, an observer wrote.
 
where:
Event A: Mozart died
Event C: he had completed
Event B: an observer wrote

Thus, he had completed precedes something in ellipsis, i.e. an observer wrote.

Just a speculation.

See my more recent attempt to explain this pattern of tenses at Post:281427.
I find this new explanation more satisfactory.

And as for Mr. Pedantic's:

Can you always rephrase 'ABC happened, before he had done XYZ' as 'he had not [yet] done XYZ, when ABC happened', ....

I believe this is correct.

CJ