Anonymous  +  800529 Mon, 29 Jun 09 09:58 AM I understand that for the past 100 years or so most traditional grammar books have defined the English past tense in this way:   the past tense expresses or indicates a time that is in the past.   What damage do you think such explanations of the past tense have done to ESL students learning? Anonymous Tenses, Past Tenses, Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, ESL, Students, Languages

	Kooyeen  +  801235 Tue, 30 Jun 09 01:31 AM Anonymous “What damage do you think such explanations of the past tense have done to ESL students learning?” Negligible damage, I think. That statement alone is not sufficient to influence learners in general, taken out of context. To have an effect, learners would have had to take that short sentence literally, understand its meaning exactly, generalize it to every context, remember it, and then not let anything or anyone else affect their cognition with respect to that "rule". Not likely, so negligible damage. If you think otherwise, prove it. Kooyeen Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005 Italy Senior Member 4,978 Parental Advisory / Explicit Posts Tenses, Past Tenses, ESL, Students, Context, Sentences

	MrPedantic  +  801585 Tue, 30 Jun 09 09:51 PM You merely need to explain that earlier indicative and subjunctive forms were superseded by the modern past tense forms. It should take 30 seconds or so.   (The apparent anomaly is not unique to English, by the way. For instance, French students already use the imperfect in the if-clause of their first language "second" conditionals.)   MrP         MrPedantic Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004 Veteran Member 12,592 ...opella forensis / adducit febris... Tenses, Past Tenses, Subjunctives, Conditionals, Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Students, Languages

	MrPedantic  +  801607 Tue, 30 Jun 09 11:00 PM If you wish. You might add that the precise "time" of the verb is often determined by the drift and nature of the sentence, rather than the verbal form itself.   MrP MrPedantic Tenses, Past Tenses, Sentences

	MrPedantic  +  802350 Wed, 01 Jul 09 10:05 PM Anonymous “ From which language level up would I be able to relay such information using such words? ”     You would use your students' native language, of course.   MrP   MrPedantic Tenses, Past Tenses, Languages