Pesky 'that'

1)The fact that he is a good teacher is well known. 2) The news that he told me yesterday is not true.

Part of speech
1) Conjucntion
2) Relative pronoun, object

that-Clause
1) Noun clasue (Appositive)
2) Adjective clause


What do you think?

Hi, Mr. M,

Thanks for prompt reply. Do you really consider the first one a relative pronoun? A relative pronoun has two basic functions: to connect two ideas as a conjunction and to replace the repeated noun as a pronoun.


Compare:
1) The book that is on the table is mine.
2) The fact that he is a good teacher is well known.
In my first example, that is definitely a relative pronoun functioning as a subject in its adjective clause. However, in my second example, what follows 'that' is a clause with complete S+V structure, unlike the first one. So I don't think it works as a restrictive relative pronoun here, rather, it's a conjunction.


I look forward to hearing from you.



Best,
Pastel

(2a) The fact that he is a good teacher is well known.
==> Can you give me a reason why this is a relative pronoun?

(2b) The movie that I saw last night was great!
==> Yes.
==> The movie was great. I saw it last night. 'That' is a relative pronoun here. It is an object pronoun of 'the movie'.

(2c) Is there a reason that these "thats(Do you mean plural?)" are not relative pronouns?

(2d) The 'that' that you've told me is somewhat different from what I've learned.
==> Yes. The second 'that' is an relative pronoun functioning as an object.
(2e) The 'that' that is being discussed in here is getting confusing.
==> Yes. The second 'that' is an relative pronoun functioning as a subject in a passive voice.



Pastel

Ooops, sorry to be a stinker. But I do appreciate your patience.

Hi Mr. M!

Yes, there's a reason.
The "that" in 2b functions like a noun in the sense that it is a subject or object, etc. of the clause that contans it.

I saw that last night.
I saw the movie last night. ("that" is "the movie" -- object of the verb "saw")

The "that" in 2a joins the noun "fact" to the sentence "he is a good teacher", i.e., you can't say, in parallel with the example illustrated above,

He is a good teacher that.
He is a good teacher fact. ("that" is the "fact" ? -- subject? object? of what?) [There's nothing to "relate" it to, so it's not a "relative" pronoun.] "that" is not the "fact"; "that he is a good teacher" is the "fact".

The "that" has only a conjunctive role, not a constituent role.

Take care,
Jim