Aardvark4  +  331987 Thu, 22 Feb 07 03:47 AM I have a quick question about plurals. I know that the plural of Attorney General is Attorneys General, and Secretary of State is Secretaries of State, but what of Madam Administrator or Madam Secretary? Would they be Madams Administrator and Madams Secretary, or Madams AdministratorS and Madams Secretaries? Thanks. Aardvark4 Joined on Thu, Feb 22 2007 New Member 03 Plurals

	Grammar Geek  +  331991 Thu, 22 Feb 07 04:00 AM Hi Aardvark, I don't know why you would want to make that plural. You would only use "Madam Administrator" if you were actually SPEAKING to her, wouldn't you? In contrast, you might say "The attorneys general of the six New England states were having a meeting," but wouldn't you simply say "The administrators were meeting."? Are you thinking of a situation in which two women who both hold the title of adminstator would be talking to you at once, and you would say "Madam Adminstrators"? I may be confused though, so please tell me the situation you were thinking of. Thanks, Grammar Geek Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006 Veteran Member 19,683 Barbara, who answers in American English. My housekeeping skills attest to the truth of the second law of thermodynamics: Left to themselves, things get more and more random! Plurals

	Grammar Geek  +  332027 Thu, 22 Feb 07 05:26 AM How would you address two men who held that position? Messieurs Adminstrator? Mister Adminstrators? We need a protocol officer here. Grammar Geek Plurals

	Clive  +  332048 Thu, 22 Feb 07 06:27 AM Hi, There may possibly be some cultural differences involved in this query. I believe that in some countries, titles are commonly used when addressing people. For example, I think my Chinese students have told me that in mainland China, people say things like 'Good morning, Engineer Smith'. In N. America, titles are almost never used in this way. Things like 'Mr. President', 'Mr. Secretary' really only relate to a few important US government figures. They are never used for business people. In Britain and Canada, we'd just say 'Good morning, Prime Minister'. I can't think of a case where you would say 'Mr. Administrator'. Best wishes, Clive Clive Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004 Canada Veteran Member 29,650 El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo Plurals

	Grammar Geek  +  332157 Thu, 22 Feb 07 02:38 PM Oh yes... I was assuming that the "adminstrator" in question was a high ranking government official. I was envisioning some kind of situation like a U.S. Senate hearing, in which the person had to address two "administratrors." Hence my reference to a protocol officer. Grammar Geek Plurals

	Aardvark4  +  332192 Thu, 22 Feb 07 04:18 PM Grammar Geek, I think that your interpretation is the correct one. When you mention a protocol officer, does this mean that there is not a gramatical answer and it instead comes down to tradition or protocol, rather than a definite rule? Aardvark4 Grammar, Plurals

	Grammar Geek  +  332196 Thu, 22 Feb 07 04:38 PM Yes, exactly. Grammar Geek

	Clive  +  332216 Thu, 22 Feb 07 05:58 PM Hi, It seems to me that the use of 'Mr.' in such phrases as 'Mr. President' or 'Mr. Secretary' arises from the strong American feeling that 'we are all equal'. eg "Good morning, Mr. Jones."   "Good morning, Mr. President." (I'm Mr. Jones and you are Mr. President. We are both just two citizens.) From what I've read, in communist countries they use forms of address like 'Good morning, Comrade Colonel', rather than just 'Good morning, Colonel'. This seems to me to reflect a similar feeling that both parties are equal. On the other hand, in class-conscious Britain people don't say 'Good morning, Mrs./Madam Queen'. Best wishes, Clive Clive Plurals