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Latest post Mon, Jun 21 2004 11:23 AM by taiwandave. 5 replies.
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Andrei  +  34027 Mon, 21 Jun 04 11:23 AM
With a first-round exit from Euro 2004 beckoning, it could have been a disastrous night for the Portuguese.

But after a vital victory over their Spanish neighbours, Portugal are set for the quarter finals - and their jubilant fans are suddenly talking about winning the tournament.

"We're going to be champions," said student Joaquin Pedro. "Tonight could have been the end but now we're the best".

Unexpectedly dumped out of the championships, the thousands of Spanish in town for the game against their great rivals are beginning the long journey home.

"We're driving back to Madrid straight away," said Carlos de Sallas, 21. "There's no point in staying after this."

In the hours before kick-off things had been so different.


Taking over central Lisbon with their matador hats, drummers, whistles and flags, the Spanish had been confident of victory.

Portugal had never beaten them in a competition, and last defeated them 23 years ago in a friendly match.

The daunting record had not escaped the notice of their hosts - many of them had expected to be out of their own tournament when the final whistle blew.






In the very first sentence, you will read the words 'the Portuguese'. I think it would be fine without the article. You could just say 'Portugese'.

It would be fine to say the people of Lisbon. I think the entire population or rather the nation of Portugese could be uncountable.
Andrei
Joined on Sat, May 29 2004
Full Member 387
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maj, 5 yr 157 days ago
Let's wait and see what England is going to do, dear.
miriam  +  34102 Tue, 22 Jun 04 01:31 AM
"With a first-round exit from Euro 2004 beckoning, it could have been a disastrous night for the Portuguese."

Andrei,
"The Portuguese" is correct in that sentence, "Portuguese" is a noun that means "the people from Portugal".
It may be perhaps confusing sometimes since the language is also called "Portuguese", and the adjective to describe things or people coming from Portugal is also "Portuguese".
The difference is precisely the article that appears in the first sentence of the article you posted.

Compare the following:
"It could have been a disastrous night for the Portuguese." (the people, noun)
"I don't speak Portuguese." (the language, noun)
"Portuguese wines are exported to many countries." (adjective premodifying 'wines')

I hope that'll help you see the difference. Smile [:)]

You also say "It would be fine to say the people of Lisbon. I think the entire population or rather the nation of Portugese could be uncountable."
It is very common to refer to a country, or to the people of a country in general, in such cases:
"Argentina won the world cup in 1978 and 1986."
"The Irish are excellent rugbiers."
"The Japanese were on the losing side in WW II."

Miriam

miriam
Joined on Mon, May 10 2004
Argentina
Regular Member 821
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." Plato
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taiwandave  +  34140 Tue, 22 Jun 04 11:02 AM
"Portuguese" is one of a number of adjectives ending in -ese that are derived from place-names. These words can also be used as nouns to refer to the inhabitants of a city or country, or to a national language.

Other examples include Burmese, Chinese, Guyanese, Javanese, Japanese, Lebanese, Maltese, Milanese, Nepalese, Senegalese, Siamese, Surinamese, Taiwanese, Tyrolese, Viennese, and Vietnamese.

To form the plural of these nouns, and hence refer to a group of individuals of the above nationalities, you must add the definite article "the", as in:

It could have been a disastrous night for the Portuguese.

"The Portuguese" can be taken to mean all Portugese people, or a specific group of individuals, depending on the context.

Note that one cannot add -s to nouns ending in -ese that are derived from place-names. I think this may have to do with the process of adjective nominalization. This is a topic that Miriam is knowledgeable about -- perhaps she can supply additional comments here.

While it is not incorrect to use an -ese place-name noun preceded by the indefinite article "a" to refer to an individual, this usage is fading and some would argue now has a derogatory connotation. So, while it is perfectly acceptable to say, "He is an American", it isn't a good idea (though not incorrect) to say, "He is a Chinese".

taiwandave
Joined on Mon, Jun 7 2004
Taoyuan City, Taiwan
Full Member 287
, , , ,
Andrei  +  34220 Tue, 22 Jun 04 06:32 PM
Miriam and taiwandave have given me brilliant answers. I have learnt it would be incorrect to say 'He is a Chinese'.
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I am Polish.

I am a Pole.


Polish is the slavic language of Poles.

A person of Polish descent is a Pole.

A native or inhabitant of Poland is a Pole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the same token, the following are proper for Denmark and the USA.

He is a Dane.

He is Danish.


He is American.

He is an American sounds odd to me.
Andrei
taiwandave  +  34234 Tue, 22 Jun 04 07:19 PM
He is American.
He is an American.

In the first, "American" is used as an adjective. In the second, a noun. Both are correct.

She is Portuguese.
They are Portuguese.

Both sentences use "Portuguese" as an adjective.

While it isn't grammatically incorrect to say "She is a Portuguese", this usage isn't recommended. Using nationality terms ending in -ese, together with "Swiss", as countable nouns sounds old-fashioned or even slightly offensive to some people.

The new manager is a Swiss.
The new manager is Swiss.

Sentences such as the first should nowadays be avoided.
taiwandave
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