Prof. Maximus Geranium    614784 Wed, 11 Aug 04 06:32 PM "Do you put your tongue between your teeth or just touch the ceiling of your mouth to pronounce 'l'?" "The tip of the tongue should touch the ridge of palate just behind the front teeth." + the tongue should not fall back into the neutral (relaxed) position after the l but should move right on to the d position. he shouldn't overdo the emphasis on the l and certainly not put on as much as is placed on it when it begins lolling. Andre. Prof. Maximus Geranium Tips

	Mxsmanic    614807 Wed, 11 Aug 04 06:39 PM "Unless the rules of the game are changed..." There was a time when only Congress could declare war. Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. Mxsmanic

	Mxsmanic    614819 Wed, 11 Aug 04 06:41 PM "It is not true for English in Los Angeles, where tsj says he is, that "/i/ is usually long and ... pretty sure. /i/ and /I/ here have very nearly the same phonetic length; the difference is almost entirely in quality." I agree; I've noticed the same thing in American English, which makes the incorrect phonetic transcriptions used in so many English coursebooks even more misleading. "Like other vowels, both do vary in length depending on the surrounding segments, though." Yes, but it's irrelevant to meaning. Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. Mxsmanic American English, Pronunciation, Vowels, Phonetics, Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, United States, American, Languages

	Steve Bartman    614864 Wed, 11 Aug 04 11:24 PM "He can't be president." "That may change." It could, but over 10,000 failed constitutional amendments would make the betting money go the other way. Steve www.thepaxamsolution.com Steve Bartman

	Jim Heckman    614878 Thu, 12 Aug 04 04:56 AM On 11-Aug-2004, Mxsmanic (Email Removed) wrote in message (Email Removed): "It is not true for English in Los Angeles, where ... same phonetic length; the difference is almost entirely in quality." "I agree; I've noticed the same thing in American English, which makes the incorrect phonetic transcriptions used in so many English coursebooks even more misleading." Agreed, if such coursebooks claim to be representing American pronunciation. Apparently length is indeed an inherent part of vowel phonemes in several important British dialects, where /i/ ~ (i:) is in fact longer than /I/ ~ (I). "Like other vowels, both do vary in length depending on the surrounding segments, though." "Yes, but it's irrelevant to meaning." Depends on what you mean by "meaning". :-) It's certainly relevant to reducing one's accent, which is what tsj is trying to do. In my American accent, pronouncing with a vowel as long as that which normally occurs in (pronounced in isolation) would sound very weird; many such mispronunciations of this type could easily cause comprehension problems. Jim Heckman Jim Heckman American English, Dialects, Pronunciation, Vowels, Accents, Phonetics, American Accents, Speaking, Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, United States, American, Languages

	Mxsmanic    614883 Thu, 12 Aug 04 05:30 AM "Agreed, if such coursebooks claim to be representing American pronunciation." They are incorrect even when representing RP. "Apparently length is indeed an inherent part of vowel phonemes in several important British dialects, where /i/ ~ (i:) is in fact longer than /I/ ~ (I)." There may be some dialect somewhere that makes phonemic distinctions based on length, but RP does not, nor does GAE. There are other errors in transcriptions as well, such as the persistent tendency to note /E/ as /e/, which is very confusing to people who actually know the IPA (these are two entirely different vowels), and the tendency to note /I/ as /i/ and /i/ as /i:/, which is also incorrect and confusing. Don't English speakers ever study any other languages at all? "Depends on what you mean by "meaning". :-) It's certainly relevant to reducing one's accent, which is what tsj is trying to do." My impression was that he simply wished to be understood. Suppressing an accent is a lot of work. Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. Mxsmanic Dialects, Pronunciation, Vowels, Accents, Mistakes, Speaking, Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, United States, American, Languages

	Einde O'Callaghan    614891 Thu, 12 Aug 04 09:27 AM "They'll have to change the constitution first since he quite obviously isn't a native-born American." "Yes. So?" According to the constitution only native-born Americans can become president. Of course, they could change the constitution. Einde O'Callaghan Einde O'Callaghan Countries, United States, American